Taiwan

[James_xeno]

How do you feel about the whole Taiwan debate?

If you don't know anything, this is an ok place to start I guess.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/asia...ntroduction.stm

I find it despicable how most of the nations of the world treat Taiwan. All just to suck up to China.

Though it's still not as bad as what the UK did with Hong Kong, but still up there.

[darkon]

I don't like the way we treat them, but it's the best of all possible options.

[Satan]

How do you feel about the whole Taiwan debate?

If you don't know anything, this is an ok place to start I guess.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/asia...ntroduction.stm

I find it despicable how most of the nations of the world treat Taiwan. All just to suck up to China.

Though it's still not as bad as what the UK did with Hong Kong, but still up there.

The question is, is it worth fighting for? What would you have us do, how should we fight it?

[No Sad Endings]

I would agree with James, except for the fact, if the world's big powers suddenly started recognizing Taiwan as an independant nation, that would probably actually be bad for Taiwan. Because China would take that as a sign that it's time to take their naughty little province in hand, and let's face it, with all those people, they could just spit into the ocean and flood Taiwan out of existance.

[Bittersweet Endings Only]

I would agree with James, except for the fact, if the world's big powers suddenly started recognizing Taiwan as an independant nation, that would probably actually be bad for Taiwan. Because China would take that as a sign that it's time to take their naughty little province in hand, and let's face it, with all those people, they could just spit into the ocean and flood Taiwan out of existance.

The problem is, they'd have to get all those Chinese over there...and the Chinese navy isn't exactly impressive...

[Ceraziefish]

Say the Civil War happened right now.

Should the UN (and the rest of the world) recognize the Confederacy or the Union?

It's not a perfect matchup, I know, but it's something to think about.

[James_xeno]

Say the Civil War happened right now.

Should the UN (and the rest of the world) recognize the Confederacy or the Union?

It's not a perfect matchup, I know, but it's something to think about.

Yes but if both were run as their own separate nations for more then 57 years, it wouldn't be as clear as that.

[Bittersweet Endings Only]

I think Taiwan is a large island in the South China Sea, previously known as Formosa.

[Ceraziefish]

Yes but if both were run as their own separate nations for more then 57 years, it wouldn't be as clear as that.

This is true. At this point I see no reason not to recognize them as two separate countries, except that it seems China still wants to retake it.

[darkon]

China doesn't think they have to retake it.

They think they own it.

[Bittersweet Endings Only]

The Taiwan issue can be summed up succinctly:

China thinks Taiwan is a renegade Chinese province.

Taiwan thinks China is a renegade Chinese province.

[kaura117]

Taiwan should be kept independent solely for the fact that it's a functioning democracy right within spitting distance of China. If the Neocons are actually serious about spreading that silly little concept around the world, they might want to think about applying it to our biggest, baddest current trade partner, and I'm not talking about India.

The problem, of course, is that Money Speaks Loudly- China's not willing to mobilize over one of its key trade partners (which Taiwan is, idly- it's not called Silicon Island for nothing), and the U.S. isn't willing to lose access to a market counted in the billions. Stalemate for another fifty years.

[Cleese]

Chang allied himself with Mao against the Japanese

Chang backstabbed Mao.

Mao fought Chang and defeated him.

Chang ran away to Taiwan and started his own government.

I see this as more of a revenge by the Chinese for what Chang tried to do.

Personally I believe this is a problem between China and Taiwan and should just stay that way. But we know how much we love to see democracy thrive in the world, even though we gladly trade with the Chinese.

[Kreutz]

Time to apply Kreutz's Law of International Relations:

[Siendra]

Time to apply Kreutz's Law of International Relations:

Thus why even countries who aren't buddy-buddy with China and it's huge trade market don't support Taiwan.

[Ceraziefish]

After Kreutz's Law of International Relations is applied, I call leader of our gang of wasteland bikers!

That means I get first pick of any food we find, and I also get to choose whom I get to use as my sex slave that night.

EVERYONE must wear leather.

[JasonStiletto]

I'd like it if Taiwan took more charge of it's own fate. They don't want to pay for their own defense because they think we'll help them if they get attacked. They're right, to a point, but if they don't invest in defensive systems it will make our job a lot harder.

They're like a worst case witness protection program. Someone else does everything they can to keep them safe, but if they go unarmed and moon the mob boss they ratted out, there's only so much we can do.

To a certain degree, everyone is responsible for their own defense.

[rockerluke]

If China and Taiwan goes to war at this moment, in 6 hours the whole air force of Taiwan will be wiped out. And Taiwan will suffer lots of casualties by just China's air attacks.

Beware of the sleeping dragon. Never wake him up.

[Satan]

If China and Taiwan goes to war at this moment, in 6 hours the whole air force of Taiwan will be wiped out. And Taiwan will suffer lots of casualties by just China's air attacks.

Beware of the sleeping dragon. Never wake him up.

China isn't the sleeping dragon. They are awake, they just don'e want to have to use their military, or stop us from buying from them

[kaura117]

I'd like it if Taiwan took more charge of it's own fate. They don't want to pay for their own defense because they think we'll help them if they get attacked. They're right, to a point, but if they don't invest in defensive systems it will make our job a lot harder.

They're like a worst case witness protection program. Someone else does everything they can to keep them safe, but if they go unarmed and moon the mob boss they ratted out, there's only so much we can do.

To a certain degree, everyone is responsible for their own defense.

...you are kidding, right? Taiwan is, for such a small nation, a huge investor in U.S. military equipment. Their only limitation are our quotas, I believe.

They've been grabbing everything from Patriot missiles to entire carriers. >_> I think it's safe to say they've been perfectly pro-active concerning their own defense.

[Reinas]

This should be a conflict left between China and Taiwan.

However, personally I believe Taiwan should be left as an independant state. Annexed to China, nothing exactly helped develop Taiwan. But under the Japanese and non-Communist leadership, Taiwan has a better economy than China and there could be a chance that if Taiwan was back under China - it's state would decline.

[Siendra]

If China and Taiwan goes to war at this moment, in 6 hours the whole air force of Taiwan will be wiped out. And Taiwan will suffer lots of casualties by just China's air attacks.

Beware of the sleeping dragon. Never wake him up.

Not true in the least. Taiwan has an extremely well developed, extremely capable defence force. China, with it's massive and impossible to defend borders, could be taken easily by Taiwan barring that they have time to properly deploy themselves. Theoretically, they could hold the Chinese Navy and Airforce at bay for months(As far as I've read, anyway.). China on the other hand, is unlikely to even notice small parties of Taiwanese armed forces slipping into the country to cause mayham.

Taiwan would be stomped into the dirt and quickly marched over, no doubt about that. China, however, would be in fairly bad shape itself - not something they want to do when investing so much effort in foreign trade relations and slowly but surely laxing civil restraints.

[GummyBearOfDoom]

China is all manpower, It would take lots of money and supply to even get there Military moving. Taiwan would be able to hold them off, AND that's if the chinese ever did attack them. The chinese aren't idiots. They are communists and I think the whole world would react if those commies attacked the Taiwanese. I just don't think it would be in there best interest to attack them even if they do think they control them.

I don't think anything will ever happen. It will be like the coldwar, both countries flexing there muscles but both very aware of the consequences. Most countries have learned of entangaling alliances between nations after the 1st and 2nd World war, I also don't think China would want to play games with who the Super powers would choose to be on their side.

Just my opinion anyways :P

[Poophy]

China has access to all weapons that the USSR had at the end of the cold war, they wouldn’t have too much trouble destroying Taiwan. But Taiwan is only valuable if its infrastructure isn’t destroyed, so there is little to gain from that, and possibly a lot to lose. If not full scale war, which could possibly amount to what the cold war didn’t (all out nuclear war); it would at least case a break down of international relations with the western world and Japan.

[Bittersweet Endings Only]

China has access to all weapons that the USSR had at the end of the cold war, they wouldn’t have too much trouble destroying Taiwan. But Taiwan is only valuable if its infrastructure isn’t destroyed, so there is little to gain from that, and possibly a lot to lose. If not full scale war, which could possibly amount to what the cold war didn’t (all out nuclear war); it would at least case a break down of international relations with the western world and Japan.

China has relations with Japan?