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Loose Change 2nd Edition


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ugh, not this crap again.

How are people able to reconcile the two ideas that the government is immensely incompetent (like Katrina), yet infinitely skilled to orchestrate an elaborate demolition plan in the center of one of the busiest points of the nation? Is there a suggested reason why the U.S. government would sacrifice so much, in both lives and a major commerce point? I hope you can come up with something better than to prompt a war, since that could be done much cheaper.

Things required for Al Queda to pull it off:

- a few extremists willing to die to kill americans

- funding provided by a rich Osama terrorist mofo

- some lax airport security

- a few plane tickets and box cutters

Things required for the US gubment to execute the most elaborate and deadly hoax in history

- involvement of hundreds of americans willing to kill fellow americans

- zero leaks to the media about elaborate hoax

- perfect prediction of events

- perfect execution of plan

- agreement and participation by bitter enemy and terrorist cell

- brilliant planning and tactical execution of politicians and other evildoers

Which one looks more likely?

oh and this is a good article, the title says it all. http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/de...html?page=1&c=y

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Did you watch it? As they used multiple examples of hard physics to disprove what we've been told happened?

I'm busy and don't have an hour and a half to waste on rubbish like this. So I watched about five minutes, and all I'll say to that is that it isn't surprising that they had a picture of the WTC in crosshairs in regards to terrorist defenses, seeing as how it had already been bombed in 1993.

Just out of curiousity what examples of hard physics did they present?

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I'm busy and don't have an hour and a half to waste on rubbish like this. So I watched about five minutes, and all I'll say to that is that it isn't surprising that they had a picture of the WTC in crosshairs in regards to terrorist defenses, seeing as how it had already been bombed in 1993.

Just out of curiousity what examples of hard physics did they present?

There where many different examples, but one big one was that there is no way get fuel, which burns at around 2000C could have taken down the WTC since the steel used in construction is designed to withstand those temperatures for several hours. Also how no skyscrapers have ever collapsed from fire in the history of architecture, including the Empire State Building which was hit by a B-25 in 1945.

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From my link.

"Melted" Steel

CLAIM: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

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I'll just simply say this, if you don't think it ALL the way through, just don't think at all.

If it wasn't the fact that a complete 757 hit the tower and ensuing fire that brought it down, what did then? And then explain how that was accomplished. And then explain how NOBODY saw any evidence of anyone doing anything fishy. And THEN explain how so many people to be involved in this conspiracy would be more than happy to kill several thousand Americans just to start a war with terrorists that would kill our soldiers. Yes, you have to keep going and going and going. And then reconcile that with the incompetence and ignorance of this administration that most people adhere to. And justify how Clinton and his whole crew would also go along with this elaborate and dastardly plan since this could never be planned in the 9 months of Bush. And then explain why Osama and Al Queda would gladly go along with the whole idea, accepting full responsibility, and entering into a war with the US where they would be at a huge disadvantage.

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I'll just simply say this, if you don't think it ALL the way through, just don't think at all.

If it wasn't the fact that a complete 757 hit the tower and ensuing fire that brought it down, what did then? And then explain how that was accomplished. And then explain how NOBODY saw any evidence of anyone doing anything fishy. And THEN explain how so many people to be involved in this conspiracy would be more than happy to kill several thousand Americans just to start a war with terrorists that would kill our soldiers. Yes, you have to keep going and going and going. And then reconcile that with the incompetence and ignorance of this administration that most people adhere to. And justify how Clinton and his whole crew would also go along with this elaborate and dastardly plan since this could never be planned in the 9 months of Bush. And then explain why Osama and Al Queda would gladly go along with the whole idea, accepting full responsibility, and entering into a war with the US where they would be at a huge disadvantage.

Watch the fucking video before you claim its all bullshit.

I'm not saying its all truth, but I don't trust my government enought to believe what they've said.

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Watch the fucking video before you claim its all bullshit.

I'm not saying its all truth, but I don't trust my government enought to believe what they've said.

Why? osama admitted to it.. bodies were recovered... all the witnesses.. and somehow the imbecile bush did it.. amazing... simply amazing... i find it very insulting that people (not necessarily you) try to push this garbage.

But you really wanna know who did it? it was the lizards who did it all :rolleyes: It's soooo obvious.

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Why? osama admitted to it.. bodies were recovered... all the witnesses.. and somehow the imbecile bush did it.. amazing... simply amazing... i find it very insulting that people (not necessarily you) try to push this garbage.

But you really wanna know who did it? it was the lizards who did it all :rolleyes: It's soooo obvious.

Your closeminded drivel is amazing. Every point you have thus far attempted to make is addressed in this video.

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I think this quote sums up my views on the true reasons for all these retarded theories. Not to mention what's wrong with the way people think today.

Immersed in a political belief system in which the United States (and Israel) is always the bad guy and never the victim, adherents refuse to give credence to any development that does not fit this narrative. So rather than blaming the perpetrators, they fall back on familiar demons. After all, an enemy one can grapple with is much more appealing than the unknown. Such beliefs offer the tantalizing possibility that there's an explanation for a reality that all too often seems incomprehensible.
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I pretty sure this same video has been disproven time and time again on every message board and every blog that isn't run by anti-government, paranoid conspiracy theorists. Even an episode of Penn and Teller: Bullshit tore most, if not all, of the same information presented in this video, apart. Quite simply, this is lunacy. You may not trust your government but quit shooting down reason.

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My government has lied to me before, will lie to me again, and the only way to protect myself from it is constant vigilance.

I also think the one giant blaring point against the government on this front is their refusal to release every document, taped conversation and other piece of evidence linked to these attacks. No information should be secret to the voters of a nation. I am the government, so I should have the same access to the information as anybody else.

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I think that anyone so quick to dismiss the idea that the government could be stabbing us in the back isn't paying enough attention.

Not that I'm saying any of this is true, but remaining vigilent to government corruption is our responceability as citizens in a democracy.

Agreed. With that said though, these types of theories are way more then just keeping an eye on the government. It's fucking borderline lunacy!

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Agreed. With that said though, these types of theories are way more then just keeping an eye on the government. It's fucking borderline lunacy!

But have you watched the video? Have you checked the facts and considered the evidence? A quick dismissal indicates to me one of two things; ignorance or nationalism.

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I love conspiracies and theories, but I usually don't buy into them. I definitley do not believe everything the media and government tells the country. Because of this I'm not a very political person. I think the tension between opposing parties draws attention from important events occurring in our world. But I did just kinda go off topic......I will stop my short rant...

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Yeah this is idiotic and getting a lot of press that conservatives are constantly using to make liberals look stupid if you listen to their radio shows (my mom does har har.) I think if everyone drops this we would have much more credibility.

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