Genetics

[Belial]

Thoughts on Cloning, Human Genome Engineering, and other genetics issues.

[Nega-Brent]

Sex with your clone is masturbation and doesn't make you gay.

[ROCKSTEADY]

I couldnt care less what they do with stem cells, I dont think humans should try to clone other humans though. im going to have say that THAT, should be the limit.

[Ceraziefish]

I don't see any reason why any of it shouldn't be done.

I mean, as the President of the Federation said in Star Trek VI, "Just because we can do a thing, it does not follow that we should," which is true. But at the same time I really don't see any reason why we shouldn't learn about how our bodies work and, y'know, play a little god while we're at it.

[kaura117]

Stem cell? Hell yes. All for it. Cloning? ...maybe.

The problem with the popular view on cloning is that they'll be the same person- but genetics isn't everything. How they're raised, what they experience, and what their environment is like plays an absolutely enormous difference in how they end up- a clone of me, for example, raised in Deep Texas, would probably have drastically different political views... >_> Not to mention eighteen years younger, if concepted at this moment.

All in all, cloning can be seen as merely a very complex way to make another human being. Harvesting organs from cloned bodies is something else entirely, but there is nothing inherently sacred about the DNA itself.

[Ceraziefish]

Yes, there's no need for cloning, at all (conventional methods of creating more humans are, at this point, working a little too well [and are arguably more fun]).

But, I'm just saying. I'm not against cloning if it ever serves any useful purpose.

[cappy]

yeah i say go for it all, i mean why not. if suddenly we're like "oh crap man, this clone is destroying humanity", we can always call off the making of more clones. same goes for stem cells.

[Ceraziefish]

But what if the clones rebel and we have to make a Star Wars movie about it?

Well, first of all I doubt there would ever be enough clones to mount any sort of successful resistance, and anyway, why would they want to if they were just afforded the same rights as everyone else?

[Satan]

But what if the clones rebel and we have to make a Star Wars movie about it?

some studio makes a shitload of money

[Belial]

My biggest fear on this issue is when humans begin to genetically engineer their offspring. The children of the rich will finally be guaranteed to be smarter, stronger, and in all ways genetically superior to children from more humble beginnings.

[Arcane]

My biggest fear on this issue is when humans begin to genetically engineer their offspring. The children of the rich will finally be guaranteed to be smarter, stronger, and in all ways genetically superior to children from more humble beginnings.

I, for one, welcome our new genetically superior overlords.

[kaura117]

Genetic superiority just means healthier babies. Probably smarter babies too, yes, but their successes and failures in life nonetheless depends more on their upbringing... and not a little chance.

So the average attractiveness of the population will go up a bit. >_> That's not much of a loss.

[Ceraziefish]

I, for one, welcome our new genetically superior overlords.

KHAAAN!

EDIT: Seriously, though... eugenics, not cool. In theory they could improve certain aspects of humanity but I imagine we'd waste it on stupid bullshit.

We lose biodiversity and it makes it easier for large swathes of the population to die in minor outbreaks of viruses.

And, of course, like Belial said, only rich people would get it anyway. Basically, this would just encourage elitism on a scale unknown of in human history.

I'm all in favor of genetically altering a baby so it can walk if it couldn't beforehand. I'm not in favor of putting the genes of your favorite athlete into your son so he can kick ass at Little League games.

[The Lone Magician]

As long as they find some useful purpose for cloning, I'm all for it. If not, then I don't care.

[Nega-Brent]

As long as they find some useful purpose for cloning, I'm all for it. If not, then I don't care.

I believe I already stated the most useful purpose.

[ROCKSTEADY]

EDIT: Seriously, though... eugenics, not cool. In theory they could improve certain aspects of humanity but I imagine we'd waste it on stupid bullshit.

I could see cloning if we were in a culture that could responsibly handle it, but i dont think our species would ever be capable oh handling such a huge responibility. And cultural eugenics is happening right now. Its happening in ways that it should, and ways it really shouldn't.

[JeremyGEE]

Im down with stem cells. And thats only a step to cloning. I think growing new organs for sick mofos would be dope. Cloning in itself is a risky ass proposition.

[Ceraziefish]

Im down with stem cells. And thats only a step to cloning. I think growing new organs for sick mofos would be dope. Cloning in itself is a risky ass proposition.

That... was hilarious.

[Nega-Brent]

Whats wrong with Eugenics?

[Ceraziefish]

Whats wrong with Eugenics?

If used beneficially on a small scale (rich people are smarter, stronger, etc) it encourages elitism and basically enforces caste-based society. If used beneficially on a large scale (everyine is smarter, stronger, etc) it lowers biodiversity in the human race and makes us all really susceptible to any and all diseases. Sort of like a field of corn that's all genetically the same. When one plant gets a new disease, the other plants can't stop it because they are all genetically identical, so the entire field dies. Contrast this with a different model of farming (less industrial model of farming) where you have many different plants in the same field, so when one plant gets a disease the disease doesn't spread as quickly, if at all, thanks to biodiversity.

Also, there's the chance of eugenics being used in a negative fashion to make basically retarded workers who might be really strong but incapable of abstract thought or what have you. Have you ever read Brave New World?

[Pamuya]

stem cells - definite yes

cloning - iffy. i dont want another 'me' out there. cloning organs could serve useful, however.

[Satan]

cloning - iffy. i dont want another 'me' out there. cloning organs could serve useful, however.

we should grow organs the way KFC grows chicken parts

as for eugenics, while I am against decreasing human biodiversity, I have no real problem with BNW.

[Ceraziefish]

we should grow organs the way KFC grows chicken parts

as for eugenics, while I am against decreasing human biodiversity, I have no real problem with BNW.

I just don't see what the advantage of BNW is. Sure, they've got some really smart people on top. But does giving them guaranteed access to slave labor at all times really help that much? I mean, for every ambitious genius they breed up, they breed up fifty docile retards.

And... While I have no problem discriminating based on proven science (no reason dogs should be citizens, for example) it is a bit morally questionable to make slaves out of what could have been normal humans.

[Satan]

I just don't see what the advantage of BNW is. Sure, they've got some really smart people on top. But does giving them guaranteed access to slave labor at all times really help that much? I mean, for every ambitious genius they breed up, they breed up fifty docile retards.

And... While I have no problem discriminating based on proven science (no reason dogs should be citizens, for example) it is a bit morally questionable to make slaves out of what could have been normal humans.

I'm not advocating BNW, I'm simply stating that I don't have any objections to it.

As for the moral question, to me it comes down to the "could have been." I don't think dwelling on "could have been" is ever really productive

[Ceraziefish]

I'm not advocating BNW, I'm simply stating that I don't have any objections to it.

As for the moral question, to me it comes down to the "could have been." I don't think dwelling on "could have been" is ever really productive

But if that man wasn't held down by a system wherein his parents didn't have enough money to feed him as a child, he could have been a doctor rather than a homeless alcoholic. (example pulled off the top of my head).

I think "could have been" and "could be" are two of the most important things in politics. Because in politics, not only are we looking to solve modern day problems, we are looking to prevent them from happening again.