The Fall of Western Literacy

[Belial]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14823087/

Some select quotes...

“’It's appalling -- it's really astounding,’ said Michael Gorman, president of the American Library Association and a librarian at California State University at Fresno. ‘Only 31 percent of college graduates can read a complex book and extrapolate from it. That's not saying much for the remainder.’”

And my personal favorite

The nation’s leaders must be able to read; for those who follow, the ability should be strictly optional.

Yay! Literacy as a class privilege! Woot woot Capitalism!

[Nega-Brent]

How are capitalism and literacy linked?

[Belial]

How are capitalism and literacy linked?

That last quote states that the working class don't need to read, but the ruling class does. Socialism works towards the disintegration of social classes where Capitalism works towards the strengthening of social classes.

[Nega-Brent]

That last quote states that the working class don't need to read, but the ruling class does. Socialism works towards the disintegration of social classes where Capitalism works towards the strengthening of social classes.

I just don't understand that connection if Americans are suppose to learn how to read when they are children.

[Gundampilotspaz]

Yay! Literacy as a class privilege! Woot woot Capitalism!

You do realize.... that was taken from a satirical article which is dated 2025 and not meant to be taken at face value?

That is what will happen if people don't learn to read.

Either way your entire argument is moot. Reading is a choice, if someone wants to learn how to read they will... they get a free education that SHOULD teach them at least that. (although I doubt that public schools teach children to read correctly or usefully) It has nothing to do with the economic system. In fact I argue that in capitalism people are pushed harder to learn to read an be successful because they won't be able to make anything of themselves without that skill.

You really are just reaching into the sky and attempting to pull out a Rudy. Go back to Russia

[Satan]

You do realize.... that was taken from a satirical article which is dated 2025 and not meant to be taken at face value?

That is what will happen if people don't learn to read.

Either way your entire argument is moot. Reading is a choice, if someone wants to learn how to read they will... they get a free education that SHOULD teach them at least that. (although I doubt that public schools teach children to read correctly or usefully) It has nothing to do with the economic system. In fact I argue that in capitalism people are pushed harder to learn to read an be successful because they won't be able to make anything of themselves without that skill.

You really are just reaching into the sky and attempting to pull out a Rudy. Go back to Russia

I wanted to agree with you until you shot yourself in the foot

Indeed, we all SHOULD be entitled to an education that teaches us to read, but many people aren't taught how to read well, and with libraries closing and the other problems to face, reading becomes simultaneously less easy and less important

Belial, why did you feel the need to try to start a flame war out of nowhere, couldn't you have started one in a thread that alredy exists?

[Belial]

Belial, why did you feel the need to try to start a flame war out of nowhere, couldn't you have started one in a thread that alredy exists?

I tend to do better when a battle is fought on multiple fronts. Guerrilla warfare and what not.

[Gundampilotspaz]

I wanted to agree with you until you shot yourself in the foot

Indeed, we all SHOULD be entitled to an education that teaches us to read, but many people aren't taught how to read well, and with libraries closing and the other problems to face, reading becomes simultaneously less easy and less important

Belial, why did you feel the need to try to start a flame war out of nowhere, couldn't you have started one in a thread that alredy exists?

I said that I doubt public schools teach children how to read properly...

[amy]

Public schools aren't teaching many children to read properly. It's really sad. America needs to stand up for better education! </obvious>

[Akito]

Sure, blame it on public schools. It's not the kid's faults for being lazy brats that never want to do their reading assignments.

[amy]

The parents also have an extremely important role in teaching their kids to want to read. A lot of parents don't read though, or can't even afford lots of books to keep in their home, or don't think it's important to go to the library. That's really sad! America needs to stand up for literacy!! </obvious>

[No Sad Endings]

Sure, blame it on public schools. It's not the kid's faults for being lazy brats that never want to do their reading assignments.

They don't want to do their reading assignments because their reading assignments are lame pieces of shit. I love reading, always did, through no fault of the public school system, that's for sure. I sure as hell don't blame kids for not wanting to do shit that sucks all the fun and imagination out of an activity that's supposed to be about fun and imagination.

[margot]

I agree with Vampy. Saying "the kids are too lazy" is a cop out. Part of a teacher's job is to motivate children to learn. You can't blame illiteracy on little kids.

This is generally why I would unschool my child if I ever had one. Schools teach children things in the wrong way.

[Juxtapose]

I too also agree with Vampy-sama. The vast majority of what kids have to read today in school....sucks. I absolutely hated reading until my mum got me started on the Xanth novels. It opened my eyes to how much fun reading really is.

What teachers need to do is find what type of genre interest kids. Some kids like mystery, some like fantasy, some like comedy.....give them the damn books that suit their wants, and you'll more than likely have them wanting to read.

But sometimes reading is not for everybody. Because everybody in my family loves to read except for one person. My sister does not like to read and when she does read something, it's usually those stupid teeny-bopper books. :/

[Gundampilotspaz]

But sometimes reading is not for everybody. Because everybody in my family loves to read except for one person. My sister does not like to read and when she does read something, it's usually those stupid teeny-bopper books. :/

:sad:

[Ceraziefish]

They don't want to do their reading assignments because their reading assignments are lame pieces of shit. I love reading, always did, through no fault of the public school system, that's for sure. I sure as hell don't blame kids for not wanting to do shit that sucks all the fun and imagination out of an activity that's supposed to be about fun and imagination.

In my opinion, the three things that get kids interested in reading are a combination of them, their parents, and their teachers. I wasn't a genius or anything, but I learned to read with the rest of my class, probably before most of them, and I've always liked it. I loved reading assignments, even if they were boring as hell, because it's so much easier than actually doing work! (this changed in high school when I had to, you know, withdraw conclusions and actually think about stuff. Then I did reading assignments exclusively).

Obviously a kid has to want to read, but I think most kids do. One of my friends in Elementary school was this guy who hadn't learned to read by 3rd grade. It was really too bad, because he really did want to read and he wasn't stupid or anything. I mean, he figured it out, but still. It was pretty sad to see.

I think it's also important for teachers to motivate people and get them to read. I won't speak for every school district but where I was raised (100% public schools) the elementary teachers were all great (Seattle Public Schools). So maybe they were assholes... But I still enjoyed it.

And of course the parents need to read to their children and get them interested in reading, and have books for them to read. Kids have to read outside of school, like you have to do anything you really want to learn outside of learning it. Like, for example, learning to play guitar would be useless if I didn't just fool around and actually play music sometimes. I can enjoy the music even when I'm not actively trying to improve my skill (which I admit happens less these days). Same thing with reading; when I read those Narnia books I'm sure I would have been capable of reading "heavier" or more complex books, but I wanted to read the Narnia books and it was fun. And my parents had some copies of them lying around that they suggested to me.

So it's more simple than "The schools suck" or "The kids suck" or "The parents suck." It's a sort of combination of all three.

[FaultyClockwork]

They don't want to do their reading assignments because their reading assignments are lame pieces of shit. I love reading, always did, through no fault of the public school system, that's for sure. I sure as hell don't blame kids for not wanting to do shit that sucks all the fun and imagination out of an activity that's supposed to be about fun and imagination.

Another thing: If you're an inner city kid and you live in a bad neighborhood, you're poor, your dad is in jail, your brother sells crack, and your mother sucks at parenting you're not going to be particularly compelled to do a boring reading assignment some sub-par teacher gave you.

[Ceraziefish]

Another thing: If you're an inner city kid and you live in a bad neighborhood, you're poor, your dad is in jail, your brother sells crack, and your mother sucks at parenting you're not going to be particularly compelled to do a boring reading assignment some sub-par teacher gave you.

Especially if you have to drop out of high school to get a job.

Yay capitalism!

[I live in your sock]

my school only has fiction novels.... no comedy, no mystery, no short stories, no non-fiction.

[Gundampilotspaz]

Another thing: If you're an inner city kid and you live in a bad neighborhood, you're poor, your dad is in jail, your brother sells crack, and your mother sucks at parenting you're not going to be particularly compelled to do a boring reading assignment some sub-par teacher gave you.

Who is that a fault of?

Society? The school?

Or perhaps if they really wanted to get out of that situation they'd do their boring reading assignment.

[margot]

Especially if you have to drop out of high school to get a job.

mm yes. I've known/heard of quite a few kids who have had to drop out in order to get a job.

But the "only officals need to be literate" is pretty random. The whole reason public education was started is because everyone needs to be educated for a democracy to work.

[Satan]

I said that I doubt public schools teach children how to read properly...

And my statement included that public schools do not teach how to read properly...

Who is that a fault of?

Society? The school?

Or perhaps if they really wanted to get out of that situation they'd do their boring reading assignment.

My brother's problem's certainly aren't my fault. In all likelihood my parents' problems aren't my fault, and if they are, especially if I'm at the age where I should be learning how to read, I probably didn't comprehend how I was causing them or know how to not cause them.

as for the reading assingment part, someone else said it better:

Especially if you have to drop out of high school to get a job.

Yay capitalism!