Public morality

[Poophy]

I fucking hate morality! Morality is part of a backward system of controlling people’s actions! Public morality has become a substitute for public religion. The government should not be able to tell me what is right and wrong.

I posted that in another thread and was wondering if anyone had any comments…

[Samurai Drifter]

Um... public morality is a creation of society, and since the common society in America are also the law enforcers and creators, those values become law.

For the most part, I think that your statement is bullshit. The government/society has no right to tell you what's right and wrong? Things are considered 'wrong,' for the most part, because they hurt others.

If they didn't tell you what was right or wrong, murder and theft would be legal. You've got to have some sort of public standard in place to keep people from killing (or otherwise harming) each other.

It gets taken too far sometimes (like in the blowjob thread), but what's the alternative to public morality (I prefer ethics)? Chaos.

[Poophy]

Ah…. Honestly…. I think I agree with sd…

Some one should close this….

[margot]

People need more morals. Have pride in yourself, respect others and the environment, ect.

[Gundampilotspaz]

Morals don't exist, not in a tangible fashion. Morals are yours, and yours alone. The government does not dictate them to you, religion does not dictate them to you.

People steal even though the government and religion tells us it's wrong, people kill even though the government and religion tells us it's wrong.

Morals are an agreement with yourself to live by your own rules.

The public agrees on a certain moral code, a code which the majority follows. That doesn't make it right, it just makes it more accepted.

[Satan]

Morals don't exist, not in a tangible fashion. Morals are yours, and yours alone. The government does not dictate them to you, religion does not dictate them to you.

People steal even though the government and religion tells us it's wrong, people kill even though the government and religion tells us it's wrong.

Morals are an agreement with yourself to live by your own rules.

The public agrees on a certain moral code, a code which the majority follows. That doesn't make it right, it just makes it more accepted.

see, this is why you;re so hard to deal with. In a limited scope, you are correct. Your last two sentences are, as far as I can tell, perfectly correct, but the rest of what you say is incomplete. Your definition, or perhaps interpretation, of morals is one of many, and if we accept it as the right defintion, there isn;t much wrong with your arguments.

As for your first two sentences, that's somewhat questionable. Thre are people for whom the laws of their religion define their morality. There may be those for whom their governments define what is moral. By your definition there are those who define morality by the law, because they agree with themselves to avoid legal trouble, and anything they consider nothing immoral except for things which are illegal.

[Gundampilotspaz]

As for your first two sentences, that's somewhat questionable. Thre are people for whom the laws of their religion define their morality. There may be those for whom their governments define what is moral. By your definition there are those who define morality by the law, because they agree with themselves to avoid legal trouble, and anything they consider nothing immoral except for things which are illegal.

I'd consider those people to be wrong.

And quite foolish.

There are laws that should be ignored, and there are always laws that should be opposed. A true patriot disobeys the laws that are unjust.

[margot]

How can you consider those people to be "wrong"? You also basically insinuated that morality doesn't exist; it's a personal opinion of what one believes is right..and opinions on something so abstract can't be wrong or foolish.

[Gundampilotspaz]

How can you consider those people to be "wrong"? You also basically insinuated that morality doesn't exist; it's a personal opinion of what one believes is right..and opinions on something so abstract can't be wrong or foolish.

Well no, they aren't wrong but those things aren't morals.

You don't choose your morals, you gain them from your upbringing and experience.

[Nega-Brent]

Well no, they aren't wrong but those things aren't morals.

You don't choose your morals, you gain them from your upbringing and experience.

No, you choose them. Nothing you learn from your upbringing or experiences is too embedded to be abandoned.

[Dramatic Conclusion]

No, you choose them. Nothing you learn from your upbringing or experiences is too embedded to be abandoned.

I was a catholic schoolgirl, for example.

Also, I seriously almost became a nun. Not a joke.

Look at me now! :hardgay:

[Natsu]

I was a catholic schoolgirl, for example.

Also, I seriously almost became a nun. Not a joke.

Look at me now!

<head explodes>

[Satan]

Well no, they aren't wrong but those things aren't morals.

You don't choose your morals, you gain them from your upbringing and experience.

if morals are an agreement with yourself to live by your own rules, how can you not choose them? Your experience may shape them, but if you're agreeing to them, you're chosing them.

[Ceraziefish]

I hate to quote a sci-fi author in a thread like this, but...

"To create criminals, create laws." -- Ursula K. Le Guin

In case anyone doesn't know at this point, I'm an anarchist. I don't think it's something that will be reasonably practiced in my lifetime but I think it is a long term goal, the abolishment of government and authority. Like GPS said, people steal and kill even though laws exist to prevent them; anarchy hinges on the prospect that I don't go out on a murderous rampage because it's illegal but rather because I don't want to go out on a murderous rampage.

[Belial]

Yeah, I'm just not going to get into this one...

[Gundampilotspaz]

I hate to quote a sci-fi author in a thread like this, but...

"To create criminals, create laws." -- Ursula K. Le Guin

In case anyone doesn't know at this point, I'm an anarchist. I don't think it's something that will be reasonably practiced in my lifetime but I think it is a long term goal, the abolishment of government and authority. Like GPS said, people steal and kill even though laws exist to prevent them; anarchy hinges on the prospect that I don't go out on a murderous rampage because it's illegal but rather because I don't want to go out on a murderous rampage.

But your also propose communism, which is against human nature. If you take any merit at all into humanism, you must believe communism is impossible. People will always attempt to better themselves and thier situation, communism requires people to accept a certain lifestyle and live with it.

Not possible, as long as they're blocks to success their will be crime. Communism will breed crime and corruption.

if morals are an agreement with yourself to live by your own rules, how can you not choose them? Your experience may shape them, but if you're agreeing to them, you're chosing them.

You are right, I suppose I'll say that it's both.

For example... you aren't going to choose that drugs are immoral if you've grown up believing that they aren't a bad thing to do. You aren't going to choose to believe that lying it immoral if you've lied your whole life and no one has whacked you around enough to make you stop.

So if anything it's a combination of both, but most morals exsist on a level below Consciousness.

[Satan]

But your also propose communism, which is against human nature. If you take any merit at all into humanism, you must believe communism is impossible. People will always attempt to better themselves and thier situation, communism requires people to accept a certain lifestyle and live with it.

Not possible, as long as they're blocks to success their will be crime. Communism will breed crime and corruption.

why do we have to bring communism into this?

[Gundampilotspaz]

why do we have to bring communism into this?

Because he's a Communist?

[Ceraziefish]

...I'm not a Communist... I'm kind of vaguely a Socialist, when I'm not feeling like an Anarchist.

[Gundampilotspaz]

...I'm not a Communist... I'm kind of vaguely a Socialist, when I'm not feeling like an Anarchist.

Same coin, different side.

[Ceraziefish]

Uh, unless the coin is "politics" then no, it's not at all.

Socialism is as much like communism as limited capitalism is like complete let's go wild laissez-faire capitalism; which is to say, in both cases the first can sorta work and the second is for rich assholes.

[Gundampilotspaz]

Uh, unless the coin is "politics" then no, it's not at all.

Socialism is as much like communism as limited capitalism is like complete let's go wild laissez-faire capitalism; which is to say, in both cases the first can sorta work and the second is for rich assholes.

Corporations create rich assholes

Not capitalism

[Nega-Brent]

Corporations create rich assholes

Not capitalism

Why doesn't anyone ever blame the rich asshole for making himself a rich asshole?

[Gundampilotspaz]

Why doesn't anyone ever blame the rich asshole for making something of himself?

*cough*

[Belial]

I'm pretty sure GPS has done next to zero reading of communist and socialist ideas outside of Heinlein novels and other ridiculously out of touch sources. His attempts to demonize the two are simply pathetic.