Limited choice abortion

[Chris C]

How does everyone feel about a strictly limited choice casual abortion system? After all, at some point a fetus does develop a nervous system.

[Chris C]

That makes no sense. Do you even know what partial birth abortion is? The baby is FORCED OUT of the womb and then has a hole drilled into it's head to kill it. Certainly thats humane.

[margot]

oh lolz. Sorry. ~_~ You should have made it more clear in your original post though. "Limited choice" can also be taken as a woman having a limited choice (generally in terms of time) in having an abortion. It's obviously not a commonly used term as "Limited choice abortion" has no google results...

About the procedure: whatever is most inexpensive and least stressful to the lady should be used.

[Chris C]

I sort of invented the term. Once a baby has a developed (enough) nervous system and brain... no more abortion. Its not infringing on the right of a woman, no matter what anyone says.

[Chris C]

Rape and medical reasons cancel out everything, naturally. The mother comes first.

[margot]

I sort of invented the term. Once a baby has a developed (enough) nervous system and brain... no more abortion. Its not infringing on the right of a woman, no matter what anyone says.

Then wait, why did you say my first post made no sense?

I'll reiterate: there should be no limits, no matter how much the baby is developed.

But it doesn't really matter. Very few, if any, medical clinics will preform an abortion past the second trimester and they generally only will if the woman is endangered or the baby is seriously deformed.

[Chris C]

Your point makes no sense. Abortions in the final days of pregnancy don't seem humane, do they?

[margot]

They're humane to the mother.

[Chris C]

(But, to be honest, my views on abortion are murky)

[margot]

I'm murky about boxing.

[margot]

BTW, I just feel like discussing this logical fallacy I often see in people with pro-life arguments.

Why do you feel like it's okay if the woman has an abortion in the later stages only when she is raped? Even if the woman was raped that abortion would still be inhumane to the fetus. Things like that seem to imply that being pro-life is more about punishing the woman (just the woman!) for being irresponsible irt birth control rather than saving babies.

[Gundampilotspaz]

Killing babies is ok at any time.

[margot]

Killing babies is ok at any time.

[GummyBearOfDoom]

BTW, I just feel like discussing this logical fallacy I often see in people with pro-life arguments.

Why do you feel like it's okay if the woman has an abortion in the later stages only when she is raped? Even if the woman was raped that abortion would still be inhumane to the fetus. Things like that seem to imply that being pro-life is more about punishing the woman (just the woman!) for being irresponsible irt birth control rather than saving babies.

Okay, I don't believe abortions are right at all. I do not believe it is the womans choice to have an abortion. One of my reasons behind this is because she should have been more careful if she had not wanted a child. My point is not that it is or is not a baby yet. It is that she is carrying something that will become a human life. I have no problem with the mother giving it up for adoption or letting someone else take care of it. Even in rape cases I think the woman should have the child, after all it's not the childs falt that you were raped. And it is still part of your DNA and your blood. And once again giving the child up for adoption is still your choice.

I know I'm not well versed in the procedures in abortion, and my opinion might be slanted a little since I myself am not a female. But this is the way I look at things, and there is no religious views behind it. As I am catholic and didnt even go to chuch on christmas. :(

[margot]

Well, I can at least respect your arguement for being consistent and logically sound.

I don't really feel like going over the abortion debate (we must have done this 4 or so times)...and I don't have the heart to argue with quailman.

[Gundampilotspaz]

Human life is not valuable nor unique. The only ones who value human life are living humans. You never hear the dead talking about right to life.

A human being, however, is more than a collection of cells and tissue. That is what a fetus is. It is not yet human.

[margot]

What about the child inside the mother who's been growing for 6 or so months? They can survive outside of the mother and have fairly complex organs and such so by your definition are living things.

[Gundampilotspaz]

What about the child inside the mother who's been growing for 6 or so months? They can survive outside of the mother and so by your definition are living things.

He said he was against any abortion.

If it can survive on it's own it probably has corssed that line between fetus and human.

[margot]

I'm wondering what your reasoning is for allowing abortion in the later stages of development.

[Gundampilotspaz]

I'm wondering what your reasoning is for allowing abortion in the later stages of development.

I never said the later stages of development.

If you are two lazy to get to the doctor within 6 months you're stuck with the baby. Perhaps it'll end up in a dempster.

Perhaps not.

[margot]

That seems to contradict your earlier statement, "Killing babies is ok at any time."

I'd also argue that late term abortions aren't really a cause of laziness.

According to wikipedia:

"Reasons to have a late abortion include:

A deteriorating financial situation

A change in relationship with the father

A lack of awareness of the pregnancy until its later stages

Inability to have an abortion earlier in the pregnancy (possibly due to a lack of funds, lack of transportation, or a legal restriction)

Discovery of a fetal abnormality, undetectable earlier in the pregnancy

The pregnancy becomes a risk to the mother's life or health"

Seems pretty sound to me.

I remember in the earlier abortion threads you were 100% for abortion even when it was developed because the government shouldn't have the right to impose laws over a woman's body.

[GummyBearOfDoom]

Human life is not valuable nor unique. The only ones who value human life are living humans. You never hear the dead talking about right to life.

A human being, however, is more than a collection of cells and tissue. That is what a fetus is. It is not yet human.

If a human life isn't valuable or unique please tell me why some peoples names live on for ever like Albert Einstein or George Washington or even Robert Heinlein and why you probably won't even be remembered by your great great grandchildren?

My point is I don't think it's right too take a potential life away that could have been used for good. And if it became evil thats a chance im willing to take. But I just find it wrong to not give birth to the child, even if you don't want it just give it away.

[Gundampilotspaz]

I remember in the earlier abortion threads you were 100% for abortion even when it was developed because the government shouldn't have the right to impose laws over a woman's body.

No, they shouldn't.

I should say... more to my real belief on the subject is that a person shouldn't just decide to have an abortion at that point.

If they can prove they can't take care of it, that the father left.... than kill the little bugger.

It's better to not bring a life into this world if that life can't be taken care of properly. They'll just be another burden on society and the state.

[margot]

I think it's incredibly cruel to force women to have the child. It's such an intense emotional, financial, and physical burden. Not to mention that many people who have abortions are young and would face social stigma for it.

Basically my thoughts just come down to: the woman's life is more important than the parasite inside of her. Forcing women to have children they don't want really seems to imply that women do not own their bodies and that their role as mothers is more important than any other role they could have in society seeing as pregnancy generally prevents young women from completing high school or college.

[Gundampilotspaz]

If a human life isn't valuable or unique please tell me why some peoples names live on for ever like Albert Einstein or George Washington or even Robert Heinlein and why you probably won't even be remembered by your great great grandchildren?

My point is I don't think it's right too take a potential life away that could have been used for good. And if it became evil thats a chance im willing to take. But I just find it wrong to not give birth to the child, even if you don't want it just give it away.

The number of people who reach historical status is less than 1 percent of 1 percent. Because only that small number have something to give the human race that will last past thier own generation.

There was a great scene in "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya" where she realizes she isn't unique or special when she walks into a baseball stadium for the first time and sees thousands of people all with their tiny little lives. All who probably believe they are unique and special.

It's not a child until it can breath and funtion on it's own. Simple. as. that

I think it's incredibly cruel to force women to have the child. It's such an intense emotional, financial, and physical burden. Not to mention that many people who have abortions are young and would face social stigma for it.

Basically my thoughts just come down to: the woman's life is more important than the parasite inside of her. Forcing women to have children they don't want really seems to imply that women do not own their bodies and that their role as mothers is more important than any other role they could have in society seeing as pregnancy generally prevents young women from completing high school or college.

I agree with you in principal. But when you have little 16 year old Lucy decide that she it too young to have a baby a month before it's due... you need to make a moral choice. The correct choice is probably abortion... or eliminate the child from the world before it becomes a burden on the state.

But the moral struggle is that is a human life at that point. If lucy decided six months before she was due the fetus is nothing more than a collection of cells.

It's a tough decision at that point. The more I think about it... the more I lean toward at any time abortions. I don't know if I'd want my wife doing that.... but I don't think I could step in someones way either.