Genetics Question

[Ceraziefish]

I think some of you might know about this... More than I do, anyway.

Let's take a hypothetical society that was required to clone all of its citizens. Would it be possible to make this society so that it wouldn't all die out from a small disease that they were all susceptible too, due to low biodiversity? Say the cloning machines could randomize certain things. So that even though all the people look the same and are very similar, they wouldn't die in swathes when they encountered a new disease.

[Satan]

if its sci fi, I think its okay for you to stretch it, regardless of the actual answer.

[Ceraziefish]

if its sci fi, I think its okay for you to stretch it, regardless of the actual answer.

Well yeah, but I'd like to stay more scientifically okay than less so.

[J-Stop]

Sounds like it would depend on what kind of disease it was and how it is spread.

[Artie]

hey and even warp drives are plausible. Scientists are already starting to try and develop them and such. So basically, your imagination is the limit. Be creative.

[J-Stop]

Cerazie should just dump this idea and make it about two teenage potheads who discover a phone booth that's really a time machine, so they travel back in various parts of time to do research for a history report that's due the next morning.

[Ceraziefish]

Well, without variation, all organisms would be affected almost equally by said disease. Let's say it it was deadly and highly contagious like smallpox, it could wipe out just about everything.

Maybe you can remedy this problem by setting up a disease research centre in this universe, which catalogs shitloads of bacteria gives all of these clone people vaccinations to just about everything known to exist?

I think I'm just going to make them SUPER paranoid about hygeine, and controlling of facilities, i.e. never go outside of your suit when in a foreign environment, all suits need to be sterilized before you come back into a safe environment.

Their society is kind of decentralized (for various story reasons) so it wouldn't really be able to enforce that kind of disease research center. There's no FTL transportation in this universe, so everything has to go at just under the speed of light (including information, and diseases).

[No Sad Endings]

if its sci fi, I think its okay for you to stretch it, regardless of the actual answer.

Depends on whether he's doing hard sci fi or not. But for the most part, yeah, you can stretch it.

Well, without variation, all organisms would be affected almost equally by said disease. Let's say it it was deadly and highly contagious like smallpox, it could wipe out just about everything.

Maybe you can remedy this problem by setting up a disease research centre in this universe, which catalogs shitloads of bacteria gives all of these clone people vaccinations to just about everything known to exist?

^ That would work

I think I'm just going to make them SUPER paranoid about hygeine, and controlling of facilities, i.e. never go outside of your suit when in a foreign environment, all suits need to be sterilized before you come back into a safe environment.

Their society is kind of decentralized (for various story reasons) so it wouldn't really be able to enforce that kind of disease research center. There's no FTL transportation in this universe, so everything has to go at just under the speed of light (including information, and diseases).

But wait, if they're not able to enact a disease research center how do you have the means to get people that organized with their germ paranoia? Also if they didn't have a way of combating disease that they thought was faultless, why would they take the risk of making everyone clones?

[Ceraziefish]

But wait, if they're not able to enact a disease research center how do you have the means to get people that organized with their germ paranoia? Also if they didn't have a way of combating disease that they thought was faultless, why would they take the risk of making everyone clones?

1. People can't feasibly travel from planet to planet, it takes long. They send out ships with cloning facilities on them to populate new planets.

Since people never really send anything but information between planets and solar systems they can enforce strict laws but it would be hard to send vaccines around. Also, there's not very much danger of a disease spreading offplanet. It's just, if it somehow got to a population on that planet, the entire planet is fucked, basically.

2. Religious fervor is what keeps them cloning. They didn't do it by choice; at one point all the humans were killed on earth (I haven't decided by what yet). The last humans who were alive built a long term cloning project that wouldn't kick into effect until the earth was safe again.

The cloning renders the clones infertile, though, so they really have no choice besides cloning.

[No Sad Endings]

1. People can't feasibly travel from planet to planet, it takes long. They send out ships with cloning facilities on them to populate new planets.

Since people never really send anything but information between planets and solar systems they can enforce strict laws but it would be hard to send vaccines around. Also, there's not very much danger of a disease spreading offplanet. It's just, if it somehow got to a population on that planet, the entire planet is fucked, basically.

2. Religious fervor is what keeps them cloning. They didn't do it by choice; at one point all the humans were killed on earth (I haven't decided by what yet). The last humans who were alive built a long term cloning project that wouldn't kick into effect until the earth was safe again.

The cloning renders the clones infertile, though, so they really have no choice besides cloning.

ah i see

If nothing but information usually goes between planets, what happens if there's a revolution? How would the central gov. suppress such a thing?

[Ceraziefish]

ah i see

If nothing but information usually goes between planets, what happens if there's a revolution? How would the central gov. suppress such a thing?

Well, any revolution would be able to survive until a ship full of soldiers could be dispatched to that planet.

Basically, their ships can only travel 98% of the speed of light. They can accelerate to this speed quickly, though, because there are no humans on board to be torn apart (living things cannot accelerate very fast without being murderdeathkilled, of course). Since the soldiers are not actually existing until they get to their target planet, the ship can accelerate and decelerate much faster, allowing it to get to its target much faster.

Basically, it's impossible for a person to travel from planet to planet, but you can send a ship and have it create clones there. If that makes sense.

So, if a planet revolted, the nearest planet would send tons of ships with cloning devices; they'd get there, create the clones, and attack. This would, of course, take a number of years (if the nearest planet was 8 lightyears away it would take a little over 8 years for the soldiers to get there).

EDIT: I should note that not many people are prone to revolution, due to lots of brainwashing, etc.

[No Sad Endings]

I see

it sounds very creepy

[Ceraziefish]

I see

it sounds very creepy

That's pretty much the idea.

For example, they're born with a desire to form ranks and walk around in groups. They have no concept of privacy.

[Gundampilotspaz]

I have a couple of questions:

What would exactly be a "revolt", since clones would have no memory or knowledge of their home planet why would they feel a revolt necessary? Wouldn't they just establish their own government without caring about one millions of light years away?

Even if these colonies were loyal to the mother planet and supported it when other colonies revolted, sending clone soldiers don't make sense. How are they trained, how do they know what equipment to use and the biggest one is how are they not overwhelmed coming from their birth place; the ship; into a wide open space. They would freak out at seeing an open space for the first time. (ala, the caves of steel by Asimov;)

Why would the scientists risk creating a genetic error and not loading up the ships with the gene base required to form a society? How are these new clones going to get the skills needed to build a society? Robots? (See, The Distant Songs of Earth by Clark; and the Star Trek: TNG episode "Up the Long Ladder")

I don't think you have to worry about disease based on the genetics side, from unadapted to alien planet after being in a sternal ship most of their lives... that is your plot.

[No Sad Endings]

I have a couple of questions:

What would exactly be a "revolt", since clones would have no memory or knowledge of their home planet why would they feel a revolt necessary? Wouldn't they just establish their own government without caring about one millions of light years away?

Even if these colonies were loyal to the mother planet and supported it when other colonies revolted, sending clone soldiers don't make sense. How are they trained, how do they know what equipment to use and the biggest one is how are they not overwhelmed coming from their birth place; the ship; into a wide open space. They would freak out at seeing an open space for the first time. (ala, the caves of steel by Asimov;)

Why would the scientists risk creating a genetic error and not loading up the ships with the gene base required to form a society? How are these new clones going to get the skills needed to build a society? Robots? (See, The Distant Songs of Earth by Clark; and the Star Trek: TNG episode "Up the Long Ladder")

I don't think you have to worry about disease based on the genetics side, from unadapted to alien planet after being in a sternal ship most of their lives... that is your plot.

I was working under the general assumption that 'memories' of one's purpose would be implanted. I mean, that seems obvious from the description.

[Gundampilotspaz]

I was working under the general assumption that 'memories' of one's purpose would be implanted. I mean, that seems obvious from the description.

I didn't see anything like that... at all

The cloning renders the clones infertile, though, so they really have no choice besides cloning.

In this case, eventually the genetic material will break down. A copy, of a copy, of a copy, of a copy is going to be less stable when cloned then a human born of woman.

[No Sad Endings]

I didn't see anything like that... at all

Well considering that there is obviously no other way it could work, it only makes sense to assume such a thing!

[Gundampilotspaz]

Well considering that there is obviously no other way it could work, it only makes sense to assume such a thing!

There are a bunch of ways it would work.

From artificially injecting experiences and knowledge to a matrix style training system. ( in the case of the soldiers)

In case of normal colonists there are even more.

[No Sad Endings]

There are a bunch of ways it would work.

From artificially injecting experiences and knowledge to a matrix style training system. ( in the case of the soldiers)

That is exactly the same as what I said, you nitwit! Implanted experiences are implanted experiences no matter what method is used!

[Ceraziefish]

Yeah, Vampy's right. It's really a lot easier to think of them as robots than clones. They're born with all kinds of memories and muscle memories.

I don't think they would get completely overwhelmed leaving their ship for the first time, since

They're capable of revolt because, like any factory, they will occasionally have errors in production.

[Gundampilotspaz]

That is exactly the same as what I said, you nitwit! Implanted experiences are implanted experiences no matter what method is used!

Memories and skills by experience are different.

Memories implies the clone becomes the person whose memories were implanted when he wakes up.

They're capable of revolt because, like any factory, they will occasionally have errors in production.

But what are they revolting against?

[No Sad Endings]

Memories and skills by experience are different.

Memories implies the clone becomes the person whose memories were implanted when he wakes up.

Oh, for the love of - it doesn't matter which it is, the point is one can assume something of that nature from his descriptions!

I would assume they revolt because it occurs to them that such a strict society isn't very fun.

[Gundampilotspaz]

I would assume they revolt because it occurs to them that such a strict society isn't very fun.

But, if they are basically robots not enough errors would occur to force rebellion. They'd be maybe a handful for every million.

And even so, why rebel, why not just change your government if the host government is light-years away and they can't control you very well? What would make the other colonies sent troops over to aid in the large oppressive government?

And the weakening of the genetic material still causes problems.... maybe they rebel because of delusions?

[No Sad Endings]

But, if they are basically robots not enough errors would occur to force rebellion. They'd be maybe a handful for every million.

And even so, why rebel, why not just change your government if the host government is light-years away and they can't control you very well? What would make the other colonies sent troops over to aid in the large oppressive government?

HELLO, soldier clone factories lulz

WAIT THERE COULD BE SOLDIER CLONE FACTORIES IN PERMANENT ORBIT AROUND EVERY PLANET

And the weakening of the genetic material still causes problems.... maybe they rebel because of delusions?

Delusions of a Libertarian paradise OMG.

...I'M JOKING, I'M JOKING, OKAY JEEZ

...I mean who would believe such a delusion amirite?

okay I'll stop now I'M SO SLEEPY I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING

[Gundampilotspaz]

HELLO, soldier clone factories lulz

WAIT THERE COULD BE SOLDIER CLONE FACTORIES IN PERMANENT ORBIT AROUND EVERY PLANET

So 18 years after a revolt begins they'd have troops ready?

(I guess you could just make them all the time, seems like a waste of resources though.