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Accelerated Evolution

Heroic Pope admits belief in evolution.


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http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,2...5002700,00.html

POPE Benedict has said there is substantial scientific proof of the theory of evolution.

The Pope, speaking as he was concluding his holiday in northern Italy, also said the human race must listen to "the voice of the Earth" or risk destroying its very existence.

In a talk with 400 priests, the Pope spoke of the current debate raging in some countries, particularly the US and his native Germany, between creationism and evolution.

“They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other,” the Pope said.

“This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favour of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such.”

But he said evolution did not answer all the questions and could not exclude a role by God.

“Above all it does not answer the great philosophical question 'where does everything come from?'“

His comments appear to be an endorsement of the doctrine of intelligent design.

Climate change

Benedict is wrapping up a three-week private holiday in the majestic mountains of northern Italy where residents are alarmed by the prospect of climate change that can alter their way of life.

A full transcript of the two-hour event was issued yesterday.

“We all see that today man can destroy the foundation of his existence, his Earth,” he said.

“We cannot simply do what we want with this Earth of ours, with what has been entrusted to us,” said the Pope, who has been spending his time reading and walking in the scenic landscape bordering Austria.

World religions have shown a growing interest in the environment, particularly the ramifications of climate change.

The Pope, leader of some 1.1 billion Roman Catholics worldwide, said: “We must respect the interior laws of creation, of this Earth, to learn these laws and obey them if we want to survive.”

“This obedience to the voice of the Earth is more important for our future happiness ... than the desires of the moment.

"Our Earth is talking to us and we must listen to it and decipher its message if we want to survive,” he said.

Last April the Vatican sponsored a scientific conference on climate change to underscore the role that religious leaders around the world could play in reminding people that wilfully damaging the environment is sinful.

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I still feel that the pope is very misinformed about many things that go on in the world.

For instance. He feels that rock is demonic.

Well, see the job of pope (aside from the whole temporal power thing) is essentially to be the prototypical vecchio for a given generation. It's pretty amusing actually.

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Well, I mean, I grant you ID is stupid. It is, though, in my opinion, slightly less stupid than straight creationism.

(otoh, has he actually SAID he supports ID? Because I mean, you can be of the opinion that God created everything, and accept evolution as scientific fact, and not support ID.)

What's slightly less stupid about it? The word "intelligent?"

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Well, I mean, I grant you ID is stupid. It is, though, in my opinion, slightly less stupid than straight creationism.

(otoh, has he actually SAID he supports ID? Because I mean, you can be of the opinion that God created everything, and accept evolution as scientific fact, and not support ID.)

hmm, unless I'm much mistaken (and I doubt I am, as I go to a catholic school) but the way the catholic church defines ID is basically, darwin was right about the scientific aspects (which was all he adressed) but God created everything. from there, exactly what is meant by ID is more muddy. It ranges from the wierd evangelical stuff to something close to deism (god set everything up, then knocked over the first domino)

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A lot of ID people claim Darwin is bunk and say that the Bible predicted dinosaurs and velociraptors lived in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve and ate plants and things are irreducably complex and archelogical evidence points towards creationism, etc, etc.

In other words, ID is the same laughable bullshit with a different name.

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A lot of ID people claim Darwin is bunk and say that the Bible predicted dinosaurs and velociraptors lived in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve and ate plants and things are irreducably complex and archelogical evidence points towards creationism, etc, etc.

In other words, ID is the same laughable bullshit with a different name.

think about what you wrote. I've highlighted the most important part. You take the opinion of a portion and apply it to the whole. As I stated, there are different definitions of ID. You have chasen to define ID in the most irrational fashion, and thus predicatably find it irrational.

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It's Creationism with pseudo-science tacked on. It's not rational in the least. The only time I've ever seen a Creationist actually admit that the world could be 4.5 million years old and that evolution makes sense is in the case of Michael Behe's latest book, but he then immeditaly goes on about how proteins are irreducibly complex and uses pseudo-science to "prove" it. The only difference between ID and Creationism is the pseudo-science, it's an attempt to justify Creationism by fudging science.

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It's Creationism with pseudo-science tacked on. It's not rational in the least. The only time I've ever seen a Creationist actually admit that the world could be 4.5 million years old and that evolution makes sense is in the case of Michael Behe's latest book, but he then immeditaly goes on about how proteins are irreducibly complex and uses pseudo-science to "prove" it. The only difference between ID and Creationism is the pseudo-science, it's an attempt to justify Creationism by fudging science.

thanks so much for reading my posts.

Firstly, if he admits the world is 4.5 million years old he's not a creationist, thoguh he could be an IDer. Creationism and ID aren't the same.

If you hear and read only what you want, and I know you hate christianity, you'll only reinforce your own ideas. Most people who advance ID are crazies. However, some definitions of ID do not contradict science in any way, they simply add a layer of faith. ID is not a well defined idea right now.

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Intelligent Design is pseudo-scientific Creationism that basically uses botched science to find proof of a creator. There are slight differences, but it's comparable enough and there's nothing more intelligent about it.

nice to see your reading what I've written

Yet again, ID is not a well defined idea. It refers to a range of ideas. Some are quite insane. Others are no more insane than deism.

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As I understand it, Intelligent Design requires a belief that God meant for humans to exist -- made them in his image. I.E., whether God "started" evolution or not, he did intend for the end result to be humans.

I shift back and forth on whether I believe in God or not, but when I do, I don't think that He has a plan for us, I think He is an ass who enjoys fucking with people and He intended for humanity to come about as much as I intended for that cloud to look like a duck, because He cares as much about humanity as I care about that cloud.

... :hardgay:

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