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Accelerated Evolution

I just heard something on TV


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Alright, I'm going to post for you something I just heard while watching "The War" on PBS. I'm going to take the comment out of the context it was used and I want to see what you guys think of it. Please don't attack the person for saying it for this simple reason alone: we did not live in her time to even understand her perspective.

Here it is:

I think the atomic bomb is the greatest thing to come out of my generation.

Not sure if that is the exact quote, I don't watch TV with a pen and paper in hand, but this was the general idea. If you saw it too and I am way off you can kick my ass when school lets out :hail:

Opine.

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I've read sources that said that Japan had been trying to surrender for several months before the bombs were dropped. Truman knew what a show of power these weapons would be and decided to ignore the Japanese and drop the bombs, thus initiating the Cold War.

Just something to think about.

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I'm gonna back up what Belial said. I've also heard that, although not being a WWII history nerd I don't have a specific source.

However, I can definitely understand how a land invasion of Japan would have royally fucked things over for everyone.

One thing to remember about atomic bombs that definitely isn't positive is that they essentially started the Cold War. Nuclear power, too, is no good (in my environmentalist opinion).

Also, don't forget all the Navajo men who died mining plutonium because the government doesn't care about Indians.

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Nuclear power, too, is no good (in my environmentalist opinion).

Off-Topic:

Actually, if you can safely store the nuclear waste and avoid any sort of meltdown, nuclear power results in next to zero pollutants. Now, safely storing nuclear waste is no mean task, but it can be done as long as we're careful.

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Off-Topic:

Actually, if you can safely store the nuclear waste and avoid any sort of meltdown, nuclear power results in next to zero pollutants. Now, safely storing nuclear waste is no mean task, but it can be done as long as we're careful.

Continuing the off-topicness, I've heard that's the case but I don't trust any private or public organizations enough to let them do it.

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Nuclear power is the energy of the future, it is the most efficient and most environmentally friendly energy source we have.

We had to drop the bomb on Japan because we needed to end the war there. Could you imagine a world where the soviets had helped invade Japan and instead of a North and south Korea we had a North and South Japan? Japan being the second most powerful economy in the world... things would have been much different.

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"We're standing there dying, daring to do nothing decisive because we've declared ourselves to be better than our terrorist enemies--more moral, more civilized...we sent men with rifles into Afghanistan and Iraq and kept our best weapons in their silos"

This was Pauls contrast between hiroshima/nagasaki and the war in iraq.

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Well my Dad was in WWII and he was glad as hell that we dropped the bomb. He said it was one of the hardest and best decisions ever made by the President at the time. MY dad was stationed in Burma at the time as the gunner for a B-25 so I don't know if he would have gone. But for sure many of the people he knew would. They thought more people would die if we invaded anyway. Japan was not giving up, I still agree and say it was a smart move. Of course it was horrible, war is horrible. But war is something you can't avoid. We even created the Japanese laws for them not being able to form a military or use guns I believe and now they are more peaceful then us and one of our greatest allies. If we invaded the beaches of Japan more people on both sides would have died. They believed that Japanese civilians would have fought with their last breath and that's the last thing you want.

Also we never knew how devastating the bombs would be and it took two.

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Also we never knew how devastating the bombs would be and it took two.

Er, not exactly. Between the Hiroshima bombing and the Nagasaki bombing almost nothing was heard from Japan. After Nagasaki there was an unconditional surrender.

It wasn't like Japan took one bomb, was like "haha we don't give up, bring it fuckers" and we had to drop another. It was more like Japan was already trying to surrender, the Americans dropped one bomb as a show of force, didn't hear anything, so they dropped another.

Thing is, Japan wasn't going to make an unconditional surrender. The war was going to end, but Americans weren't necessarily going to occupy Japan. Think of, say, a strategy video game. When you're winning a war, your enemy will make you offers to end the war that you don't take because it's simply more profitable to completely annex them. Similar situation. The Americans wanted Japan to give them an unconditional surrender so that they could expand American Imperialism in that part of hte owrld.

I don't know if I agree with Noam Chomsky on this particular thing. Dropping the bomb was certainly one of the most fucked up things that ever happened but I think there have been worse things in the past, such as genocides (the one perpetuated against Native Americans especially).

I don't know how any generation could be actually proud of something that's destroyed so much and had, and has the potential to destroy everything.

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Er, not exactly. Between the Hiroshima bombing and the Nagasaki bombing almost nothing was heard from Japan. After Nagasaki there was an unconditional surrender.

It wasn't like Japan took one bomb, was like "haha we don't give up, bring it fuckers" and we had to drop another. It was more like Japan was already trying to surrender, the Americans dropped one bomb as a show of force, didn't hear anything, so they dropped another.

Thing is, Japan wasn't going to make an unconditional surrender. The war was going to end, but Americans weren't necessarily going to occupy Japan. Think of, say, a strategy video game. When you're winning a war, your enemy will make you offers to end the war that you don't take because it's simply more profitable to completely annex them. Similar situation. The Americans wanted Japan to give them an unconditional surrender so that they could expand American Imperialism in that part of hte owrld.

I don't know if I agree with Noam Chomsky on this particular thing. Dropping the bomb was certainly one of the most fucked up things that ever happened but I think there have been worse things in the past, such as genocides (the one perpetuated against Native Americans especially).

I don't know how any generation could be actually proud of something that's destroyed so much and had, and has the potential to destroy everything.

If a atomic bomb was dropped on my country and I had no chance of winning there after I'd be on my little red phone in seconds. I would never ever wait for a possible second. When leading a country decisions must be made by the minute.

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Thing is, Japan wasn't going to make an unconditional surrender. The war was going to end, but Americans weren't necessarily going to occupy Japan. Think of, say, a strategy video game. When you're winning a war, your enemy will make you offers to end the war that you don't take because it's simply more profitable to completely annex them. Similar situation. The Americans wanted Japan to give them an unconditional surrender so that they could expand American Imperialism in that part of hte owrld.

They also demanded an unconditional surrender from Germany, was that to expand American Imperialism :rolleyes:

Don't toss your own opinions in with Historical fact, the reason we demanded an unconditional surrender from all Axis is because when we allowed Germany to surrender after World War 1 they..... never really let that loss go. Those emotions would eventually stir and lead to a dictator by the name of Adolf Hitler.

We needed a avoid German or Japan from coming back in ten years and try and fight another war, causing more lives and continuing the cycle of war and peace forever. The only way to ensure a complete victory was to go into Germany and Japan and build stable governments, after which we allowed the German and Japanese people to rule themselves.

Japan wouldn't surrender anyway, the records show that after the second bomb the military commanders wanted to continue the war, the Emperor had to step in and end it. In the hours leading up to the Emperors national address military commanders attempted to steal and destroy the only recording of the address and continue the war.

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If a atomic bomb was dropped on my country and I had no chance of winning there after I'd be on my little red phone in seconds. I would never ever wait for a possible second. When leading a country decisions must be made by the minute.

Yeah! Why didn't the Japanese just get in the internet or their satellite phones or something and call up Truman and be all like "zOMG THAT REALLY HURT! Me give up! Me give up!" ?

Oh wait, thats right... It was 1945 and their infrastructure was fucked.

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Yeah! Why didn't the Japanese just get in the internet or their satellite phones or something and call up Truman and be all like "zOMG THAT REALLY HURT! Me give up! Me give up!" ?

Oh wait, thats right... It was 1945 and their infrastructure was fucked.

They could communicate back then also. There is no way in hell Japan did not have an immediate phone line with America for surrender. Or by any other means. But thanks for the sarcasm in a serious debate and discussion thread.

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I've read sources that said that Japan had been trying to surrender for several months before the bombs were dropped. Truman knew what a show of power these weapons would be and decided to ignore the Japanese and drop the bombs, thus initiating the Cold War.

Just something to think about.

Those sources are hilariously wrong.

It was only after the bombs were dropped that anyone in the Japanese government wanted to surrender, and right before the surrender there was an attempted coup de'tat to prevent it from happening. It ended in failure and the generals involved committed ritual suicide.

The Japanese military really, truly did not want to give up, and had the bombs not been dropped they would have fought tooth and nail until every last one of them was dead. 80% of the army had been wiped out by the time they gave up.

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Even before the first Bomb, from a strategic point of view, Japan had lost. The military could surrender or it could resign to do what it intended and that was fight to the last man.

Japan lost when they went to war with a contrary with 22 times their military capital (Overall comparison of standing troops, production capital, deploy ability, etc).

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They also demanded an unconditional surrender from Germany, was that to expand American Imperialism :rolleyes:

Yes, actually. An Empire needs military bases close to its enemy (Soviet Union) and needs to remove other possible powers (defeating Germany so handily means that what was once a powerful country

Don't toss your own opinions in with Historical fact, the reason we demanded an unconditional surrender from all Axis is because when we allowed Germany to surrender after World War 1 they..... never really let that loss go. Those emotions would eventually stir and lead to a dictator by the name of Adolf Hitler.

We needed a avoid German or Japan from coming back in ten years and try and fight another war, causing more lives and continuing the cycle of war and peace forever. The only way to ensure a complete victory was to go into Germany and Japan and build stable governments, after which we allowed the German and Japanese people to rule themselves.

Japan wouldn't surrender anyway, the records show that after the second bomb the military commanders wanted to continue the war, the Emperor had to step in and end it. In the hours leading up to the Emperors national address military commanders attempted to steal and destroy the only recording of the address and continue the war.

No. Hitler didn't come to power because the U.S. beat Germany, Hitler came to power because due to war reparations, terms of surrender, etc, Germany was absolutely fucked. The economy was screwed because they owed so much money to Britain and France, they couldn't legally have a military.

The unconditional surrender didn't change the fact that Germany had been utterly defeated. Its people were tired of fighting and, after facts about the death camps came out, on guard against fascism. Add to that the country was divided in half and the two halves basically put at war with each other... It's easy to see why another Hitler didn't come up.

World War II could have been completely avoided if the Allies had actually intervened when Hitler had started breaking the terms of the Treaty of Versailles, instead of waiting for him to build up a huge army, invade other countries, and solidify his power base in the country. Instead, they let him come to power.

Your historical "facts" are just a different interpretation of flawed records. Study historiography sometime, anyone can spin anything any way they want. "Facts" are something that pretty much don't exist, especially when talking about history.

Also, I agree with Siendra. I don't really see any way that Japan could've won WWII. Maybe if the attack on Pearl Harbor had actually hit

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They could communicate back then also. There is no way in hell Japan did not have an immediate phone line with America for surrender. Or by any other means. But thanks for the sarcasm in a serious debate and discussion thread.

Also, yes there was. Consider that this is a country that has been under attack for years. Tokyo has been constantly firebombed (killing more people and being more destructive than the nuclear attacks, IIRC) for years, other industrial centers have constantly been harassed, the country's continental empire has been smashed...

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were two of the only remaining major industrial centers that hadn't been severely damaged. When one of them was absolutely smashed by a weapon that no one could imagine, how do you think they reacted?

Also, this wasn't the modern USA, which in addition to having instantaneous communication, has been becoming more and more paranoid over the years through the cold war.

Yeah. It's not like they had a phone to surrender. Why would they ever do that? Radio was too weak to cross the pacific (unless you were rich like the US and could make giant antennas), phone lines all over the country were out. Getting a call into the white house was probably possible, but hard.

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