Slaughterhouse-Five

[Gundampilotspaz]

I have been wanting to read this book for a while. But with SO much Heinlein sitting in front of me at all times it just seemed unlikely. But I did WANT to read it. So I asked for it for Christmas, and with it sitting there I picked it up after finishing "The Man who Sold the Moon".

From the first page I loved it. I think the first chapter adds to the power of the novel, where Vonnegut tells us why it took so long to write it, and the events leading up to the writing of a novel. Which I think is important. Good authors have a reason for writing a novel, hearing Heinlein s reason for writing "Starship Troopers" enriched the text for me. So having that embedded into the book was a very good start.

The way it was witting was wonderful, three little words "so it goes", being the Tralfamadorans way of looking at an event, constantly being placed lightened the mood and put things into perspective. The entire concept of him being "Unstuck in time" was wonderful for the war novel. The idea that all events in the past, present, and future make up a mans life. I understood the idea of the war being with him forever more so in this book then in any other book. I recently finished "The Things they Carried" by Tim O'Brian, and the two didn't compare in the terms of an image of what war was really like.

The other unique feature was that Billy Pilgrim wasn't a real soldier, he was a chaplains aid and when the novel begin he was separated from his unit with not weapon being dragged though the woods, waiting to give up but being pushed along. This was to insure that none of Billy's war experience couldn't be turned into a glorious tale. They were bleak, depressing, and showed a side to World War 2 that most people forget. .

That really is the most general I can be with the novel, the fire bombing of Dresden was perfect. It wasn't an epic description of fire and how the scene looked, but just how Billy experienced it from his shelter. "There were sounds like giant footsteps above, the giants walked and walked." The event that the whole book was about, was over in a paragraph. Reduced to simple language that shows what he experienced, not what the city was like. The experience of the one man shines though, as the world around him passes by.

[Samurai Drifter]

The real debatable question, though is, are the Tralfammadorians real? Or is Billy just insane? >_>

I think the book sort of implies the latter, but either is possible.

[darkon]

Yeah, but Tralfamadorians appear in other books of his. That said, I tend to lean towards Billy being more insane than the Tralfamadorians being real. However, whether they are real or not doesn't really affect the overall message they posses in any way.

I too loved the way that the fire bombing was written, the entire focus of the majority of Vonnegut's writing career sees itself summed up as just another plain act in the life of people.

It's been over a year since I last read this book, I hope to go through it again when I get the chance to refresh my memory on some events. But the first chapter is something I will never forget. Vonnegut is at his best when he isn't trying to write a book and when he's just writing. Of the books of his I've read, he does that a few times and those chapters always are standout chapters... of course, some of his books have chapter numbers creeping into triple-digits.

Slaughterhouse is my favorite book ever, so I'm hoping to be able to contribute more to this discussion when I wake up.

[Cleese]

dont bother with the movie, i give it props for trying to follow the books method for storytelling, but the book is much better about it.

I always thought the Tralfamadorians were real, after all, reality is what you make of it.

[darkon]

dont bother with the movie, i give it props for trying to follow the books method for storytelling, but the book is much better about it.

I always thought the Tralfamadorians were real, after all, reality is what you make of it.

But I thought some of the issues at hand was that Pilgrim had become disillusioned with reality... thus I thought he imagined the Tralfamadorians almost if he was schizophrenic.

[Venom112]

dont bother with the movie, i give it props for trying to follow the books method for storytelling, but the book is much better about it.

When has anyone ever said "Oh yeah, the movie is way better than the book." Nowadays what you're saying is simply implied even though they are in completely different realms of execution and so such a statement is irrelevent.

[Cleese]

my comment is valid in that the movies attempt to recreate the books style of storytelling didnt work.

Just beacause the medium is different the context is still the same

but thats neither here nor there.

[Gundampilotspaz]

But I thought some of the issues at hand was that Pilgrim had become disillusioned with reality... thus I thought he imagined the Tralfamadorians almost if he was schizophrenic.

I'm really on the wall with that. The compete purpose of the Tralfamadorians as a character in the story is lost upon me. What I can see them for is to back up the lost in time idea. And their real purpose in the story comes from the line:

"If I hadn't spend so much time studying earthlings," said the Tralfamadorian, "I wouldn't have any idea what was meant by 'freewill' I've visited thirty-one inhabited planets in the universe, and I have studied reports on one hundred more. Only Earth is there any talk of free will."

Which backs up the Fatalistic theme as well.

I don't think I ever considered them an illusion after the first time he mentioned them. I think Vonnegut ment for us to believe that Billy was TRUELY unstuck in time. So then the Tralfamadorians would have to be real.

Another thing I didn't really understand relivence too was the fact that Billy was in the zoo. Once again, only seemed to allow Vonnegut to spend more time on the Tralfamadorian way of life.

The scene I want your imput on especially is where Billy goes into the bookstore in New York. That I'm on the wall with in terms of Vonneguts purpose.

[Venom112]

my comment is valid in that the movies attempt to recreate the books style of storytelling didnt work.

Just beacause the medium is different the context is still the same

Perhaps, but considering the differences between the two styles, it is rather unecessary to talk about which of the two articles is better than the other.

"Such and such is sooo much better as a book"

"The story may have more to it, but how is the camera work and acting? And wouldn't you say that a movie could just be another interpretation of the book that is just fine in its own field?"

"...Darn..."

but thats neither here nor there.

Right, it's there! *throws dart to map*

Hmm... New Zealand. Pack your bags, the answer is before us!

[darkon]

I'm really on the wall with that. The compete purpose of the Tralfamadorians as a character in the story is lost upon me. What I can see them for is to back up the lost in time idea. And their real purpose in the story comes from the line:

"If I hadn't spend so much time studying earthlings," said the Tralfamadorian, "I wouldn't have any idea what was meant by 'freewill' I've visited thirty-one inhabited planets in the universe, and I have studied reports on one hundred more. Only Earth is there any talk of free will."

Which backs up the Fatalistic theme as well.

I don't think I ever considered them an illusion after the first time he mentioned them. I think Vonnegut ment for us to believe that Billy was TRUELY unstuck in time. So then the Tralfamadorians would have to be real.

Another thing I didn't really understand relivence too was the fact that Billy was in the zoo. Once again, only seemed to allow Vonnegut to spend more time on the Tralfamadorian way of life.

The scene I want your imput on especially is where Billy goes into the bookstore in New York. That I'm on the wall with in terms of Vonneguts purpose.

It's been so long... I think it has relevance to the books he looks at... I think. As Vonnegut explains later in his career, Kilgore Trout is simply Vonnegut's view on how terrible the world of literature is. A guy can't write what he wants, he has to hope someone likes it and is willing to pay the money to market it.

[Wind]

I loved Slaughethouse-Five, thanks to Mith for the recommendation. Unfortunately, I read it in Grade 10, and I don't quite remember much of that year.

:laugh:

[Belial]

Finished the book a couple days ago. It was really good.