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Bailout


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So there is a big battle in congress over the proposed $700 billion bailout. From what I have read none of our congressmen seem to be considering bailing out the American people.

This isn't the first bailout, it's just the most expensive and the only one to make national news for some reason.

What do you think? Should the companies that failed miserably with bad business practices receive a bailout or should that money be used to relieve the debts of the American people in the middle and lower class?

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In related news, WaMu failed. So basically we're seeing the entire financial structure of free market capitalism meet its bloody end. We seem to forget that at the start of America, big business saw much more government regulation than it does today. Bailing out the banks isn't going to fix everything, but whether we like it or not without this financial structure those of us who were smart with our money are going to get fucked as well. The entire country is screwed, and the blame falls solely on the shoulders of deregulation.

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So many people seem to have this big belief in the Free Market and it's ability to manage itself, but it seems that as soon as these companies who have ruined themselves are crippled and are starting to fall, these same people tell us how important a bailout is and how much we need it. This bailout is going to fix things for a time, but how long 'til the next major disaster? As long as the credit industry keeps trading in money that doesn't exist, and as long as they "lose" money along the way it's just going to happen again and again.

Funny how universal healthcare and veteran's pay are too expensive, but as soon as the fatcats fuck up they leave everyone else to foot the bill for their mishaps, while they get free money that comes straight out everybody's pockets.

I despair. What solution is there to this? I'm not sure if the industry will learn it's lesson.

Since when have we had a free market?

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I'm astounded that these HUGE banks managed to lend out so much bad money. What in the HELL were they thinking? "Let's screw over this guy who has utterly no ability to pay us back, and then rape him for profit, lol!"

Seriously, this is not just deregulation, but pure unadulterated GREED. The greedy banks that chose to give low ARMs, and then jack up the interest rate expecting people to pay when the banks should have known from the start are exhorbitant interest costs. The greedy borrowers that knew they were living beyond their means and chose to get low-interest ARMs, with utterly no intention of repaying them contributed just as much.

In sum, we have banks trying to screw people, people trying to screw banks, and everyone getting buttfucked. Maybe next time, the new banks will learn to DO A FUCKING BACKGROUND CHECK or some shit.

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It's kind of ridiculous they're giving them so much money without stipulations. There can be no doubt republicans, democrats are just working for corporations...

I agree it's unfortunate we're spending so much tax money to support corrupt insurance companies, but socialized medicine is just out of the question. :/

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It's kind of ridiculous they're giving them so much money without stipulations. There can be no doubt republicans, democrats are just working for corporations...

I agree it's unfortunate we're spending so much tax money to support corrupt insurance companies, but socialized medicine is just out of the question. :/

Actually the bailout is being halted by House Republicans who do not want taxpayer's money to be used, but instead want to develop a plan that will allow Wall Street to bail themselves out.

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The free market will correct itself if these bastards in Washington let it.

The brief period leading up to the Great Depression is as close as we came.

Worked out GREAT.

Yes, the complete construction of railroad and industrial capital fueled by the free market really didn't help us win World War 2 or anything. The Great Depression was caused by greedy corporations who inflated their stock prices, it wasn't caused by a failure of the free market.

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The free market will correct itself if these bastards in Washington let it.

Yes, the complete construction of railroad and industrial capital fueled by the free market really didn't help us win World War 2 or anything. The Great Depression was caused by greedy corporations who inflated their stock prices, it wasn't caused by a failure of the free market.

Railroad construction was at its height well before the great depression, and wasn't entirely without government incentives. And if greedy corporations aren't the free market, what the hell is?

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The free market will correct itself if these bastards in Washington let it.

Yes, the complete construction of railroad and industrial capital fueled by the free market really didn't help us win World War 2 or anything. The Great Depression was caused by greedy corporations who inflated their stock prices, it wasn't caused by a failure of the free market.

Take history classes with an open mind and get back to me. I used to be very pro-free market, but as I studied history and economics further and further I found it to really not be the solution I grew up hoping and thinking it was.

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Take history classes with an open mind and get back to me. I used to be very pro-free market, but as I studied history and economics further and further I found it to really not be the solution I grew up hoping and thinking it was.

Ask Alan Greenspan about free market, just because you took 3 economic classes and a couple history classes doesn't mean free market isn't a viable solution to a lot of the worlds problems.

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Ask Alan Greenspan about free market, just because you took 3 economic classes and a couple history classes doesn't mean free market isn't a viable solution to a lot of the worlds problems.

Not as viable as more structured and disaster-preventive systems. When you get out of America, learn how the world functions, and open your eyes to anything other than what you ignorantly want to believe to feed your ego, get back to me. Until then I'll sit here and wonder once again, as I've been doing with my pretty good predictions of this economic downfall, how I can see it so simply and others just can't.

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Not as viable as more structured and disaster-preventive systems. When you get out of America, learn how the world functions, and open your eyes to anything other than what you ignorantly want to believe to feed your ego, get back to me. Until then I'll sit here and wonder once again, as I've been doing with my pretty good predictions of this economic downfall, how I can see it so simply and others just can't.

These problems have nothing to do with a free market because.. We don't have a free market.

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I fail to see why everyone thinks that "a few bad eggs have spoiled the bunch." This is a systemic crash that was inevitable and we're just now seeing the true repercussions of the monetarily empty system capitalism has become.

Free market can't be a panacea based solely on the manipulation of the idea of what a free market COULD be and what it is. Free market is pretty much defined by exploitation of workers, the environment, and the 3rd world. A market being free at the expense of others doesn't create a sustainable system, because cheap labor and cheap resources aren't renewable. Leaving things to the free market to fix itself won't work, but any viable option for reconstructing "capitalism" died 50 or so years ago. It's going to take a crash of massive proportions to change the nature of the beast.

In short... LOL STOX

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These problems have nothing to do with a free market because.. We don't have a free market.

So are all of GPS anti-socialist and anti-communist arguments invalid because there's never been a real socialist and/or communist country? No (they're invalid for other reasons, but not that). The U.S. may not have a completely free market but it has a highly deregulated economy and what you're arguing for with a completely free market is even more deregulation.

In many ways, FDR was one of the greatest American capitalists because he reformed the system in a way that made it sustainable. Bankers were lending out crazy amounts of cash they were never going to get back because they could, and they didn't care about long-term consequences (sound familiar? In this category go people who don't care about the environment and republicans, mostly). Sure, the current generation of bankers is screwed, but think of all the bankers since the fifties who have made themselves incredibly rich off of this system? Are they being punished? The only people who are being punished in this situation are the American people. This directly affects me, though I've never taken a loan in my life, and my parents have no debt that they can't pay off. I've been responsible, and my family has been responsible, but having the economy in the shitter makes my life worse.

Also, GPS, your bit about WWII... the Soviet Union collectivizing food production and starving two million Ukrainians arguably helped us win WWII more than anything the Americans did, so... what's your point? Helping us win WWII != Good. Besides which, the bulk of the United States' industrial capacity was built up in a period of significant (-ly more than there is now, or was in the 20's) government control.

And, Gummy... if taking Economics classes doesn't help you to make an informed decision about the nature of capitalism, then what does?

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And, Gummy... if taking Economics classes doesn't help you to make an informed decision about the nature of capitalism, then what does?

I'm merely saying taking a course in economics doesn't make you an expert, I've taken one, GPS has taken one and I don't think I am an expert on economics.

Are you saying because GPS has taken an economics course now he is absolutely 100% right about Socialism. No, probably not. That is what I'm saying.

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