Existential Confusion

[FaultyClockwork]

I've been wrestling with a lot of issues lately and need to put them on metaphorical paper. I have trouble getting it all down at once, so I'll do it in snippets as they come to me.

For starters:

I feel kind of akward being in the hierarchal college system as an Anarchist, almost like I lack integrity. Of course only I can answer whether integrity or utility (going through university so that I'll get a degree that can improve my principles and education for later) but it's hard to decide for some reason.

[Nega-Brent]

You're not an anarchist.

[Nega-Brent]

If he believes anarchy is the true way for the world to work then yes, he is most certainly an Anarachist.

I think you might be misconstruing Anarchy as something revolutionary and violent.

I know what an anarchist is, but if you're not practicing your beliefs then you're not a member.

It's like saying you are Jewish but love Jesus.

[GummyBearOfDoom]

I know what an anarchist is, but if you're not practicing your beliefs then you're not a member.

It's like saying you are Jewish but love Jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_for_Jesus

[Nega-Brent]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_for_Jesus

That proves my point. :awesome:

[Nega-Brent]

So no one is an anarchist since the state still exists? I don't believe that. If you support Anarchism, you are an Anarchist.

Going to college to earn a degree is a funny way of supporting Anarchism.

I support that I am God, therefor I am God.

[Nega-Brent]

That doesn't make any sense and doesn't do anything for your argument. Anarchism is an ideology, being God isn't.

Going to college and getting a degree is a fine way of supporting anarchism. There are plenty of scholarly anarchists. Noam Chomsky, Peter Kropotkin... &tc.

It makes plenty of sense. Scholarly anarchists aren't anarchists either unless they're actually doing something to support it.

And some people would argue with you about God not being an ideology.

[GummyBearOfDoom]

The term Anarchist is annoyingly broad and too many people tag themselves as one.

[Nega-Brent]

Peter Kropotkin wrote Anarchist theory; how is that not doing something to support it? If you're producing scholarly literature supporting Anarchy, you are most definitely an Anarchist.

I didn't say that wasn't supporting anarchism. I said if they're doing nothing to support it then they aren't anarchists. They just fancy calling themselves one.

God is definitely an ideology; claiming to be God isn't an ideology (which you tried to claim to prove a point, but it really did nothing).

Plenty of people before me have claimed to be God and have built an ideology around that idea.

[GummyBearOfDoom]

How come most of the people on AE are anarchists?

Yet at the same time all have Ipods, go to the mall and support huge corporations constantly. To me, that doesn't make you an anarchist.

[Nega-Brent]

He isn't.

I've read books on communism, serial killers, Buddhism, Christianity, etc. But I'm not either of those things because I don't practice any of their beliefs or traditions and I don't support them.

[GummyBearOfDoom]

There are two people on the board, including Faulty, who I have seen label themselves as Anarchists. And Belial rarely posts any more.

You can own an iPod and still believe that a society without a government is ideal. Faulty is an Anarchist in a society that doesn't support Anarchism (Western Society) so you really can't blame him for having to adhere to its rules on some level.

Wait. Has there ever been a society that supported Anarchy?

Also I thought CF was an Anarchist?

[Nega-Brent]

And he's read books on Anarchism and believes in it. That, by definition, makes an Anarchist.

And for the record, I'm not an Anarchist.

And yet, just as Gummy pointed out, he probably supports numerous other things that contradict Anarchism.

[Nega-Brent]

"Anarchists" aren't forced to do anything, they choose to conform.

[GummyBearOfDoom]

Yes, Kropotkin mentions certain tribes that do in his book "Mutual Aid". Western society hasn't supported Anarchy in any way though.

CF might be an Anarchist, I'm not sure though.

What an Anarchist has to do to survive (though yes, an iPod is considered luxurious), what an Anarchist is forced to do in Western society, does not sacrifice their belief.

Anarchists aren't forced to buy ipods in western society. But in an Anarchy I was always confused as to who would run factories and who would produce everything. In the Anarchy thread I made no one answered any of my questions, because there were no logical answers.

[GummyBearOfDoom]

People can work in an Anarchist society. For an Anarchist society to exist there are many factors, and many theorists have opposing views as to what an ideal Anarchist society is and how it would function.

Yes, you have to buy food in a Capitalist society. (Unless you're freegan which is just bizarre.) To live comfortably, you need to do certain things, which, in our society involves paying for shit. This isn't something we need to debate. So you're not anarchist unless you're homeless trying to overthrow the government?

Not what I'm saying, I was asking about why people would want to work in a factory in an Anarchist society. Why would people want to do the types of work that in any other Society are needed but that no one truly wants to do (usually). They are just questions I had and never got answered.

I'm not trying to attack anyone if that's what it is coming off like just trying to get a grasp on it.

[Nega-Brent]

I'm not disrespecting his beliefs. I just don't think you can call yourself an Anarchist so long as you're choosing to remain and conform in a society with a government. That to me just means you fancy calling yourself something that you are not.

[Nega-Brent]

There are some jobs nobody would be motivated to do without something like pay.

[Nega-Brent]

Like? Most likely these are jobs that wouldn't be necessary in an Anarchist society.

Who would run the sewage processing plants?

[Nega-Brent]

People would run sewage processing plants. Ideally, according to Anarchy, there would be people that recognize that it needs to be done.

I'm not saying I am an Anarchist or believe in any of it, I just have an understanding of it and see how it could work.

I don't think anyone decides to get a job at a sewage plant because it needs to be done.

[GummyBearOfDoom]

You're not an Anarchist, of course you don't think anyone decides to get a job at a sewage plant because it needs to be done. *shrug*

Anarchists can not really believe that someone would work for a sewage plant because it needs to be done do they?

Wow.

[Nega-Brent]

Foldered's idea of anarchism sounds more like the futuristic world of Star Trek.

[GummyBearOfDoom]

Foldered's idea of anarchism sounds more like the futuristic world of Star Trek.

Yea but in Star Trek they have replicators which means they can have anything they want out of trash, so that would make it more realistic.

[Nega-Brent]

Yea but in Star Trek they have replicators which means they can have anything they want out of trash, so that would make it more realistic.

The replicators create anything they want out of stray atoms. Not trash. They incinerate their trash.

[FaultyClockwork]

I do my best to shop at the smallest stores I can find even if it costs extra, I sign animal rights petitions on the streets, I give money to beggers who, for all I know, could be crack addicts. I'm in a city I'm not familiar with and have only the faintest idea of how to shop as ethically as I can hear, yet. I give myself the luxury of books and computers and such; I'm trying to cut down on anything that doesn't directly relate to a hobby and that I won't use, so basically the only thing I buy is books, food and clothing, as well as stuff like razor blades, deoderent, tooth paste, etc. ... occassionally a game, which I do because piracy hurts the game industry more than most. When I'm upset I sometimes go for walks and listen to music and when I walk by beggers I feel incredibly guilty, but I have no idea what to do other than to doll out a coin here and there. I'm trying to get my dad to donate some of my allowances to this charity called PATH but he hasn't done it yet even though I supplied a link and keep bugging him. I don't have monetary solidarity yet, so I can't do much without my parent's cooperation.

Some of my Existential angst also comes from the feeling of hopelessness I feel when confronted with issues I feel too small to be able to help with. I've signed up for a summer volunteer program, for starters... I'll hopefully be in Costa Rica doing nature conservation for 2 weeks. If it goes well, I might try and do the program again and maybe do nature conservation in South Africa or maybe social work in Croatia or Ecuador.

A lot of crime is a result of classism and coercion. A sane person will not work against his or her own self-interest when given the option to. When you remove government and corporation, resulting in the worker working for himself or herself and his community and not for pay, a faceless organization or because he was told to, he or she will be able to work effectively without being coerced into it. Car designers won't be designing for profit, they'll be designing for functionality, and the workers who build the cars won't be building them because they need to make minimum wage or starve, they'll be building for the satisfaction of accomplishment and because they and their friends and family while be utilizing the product.

Let's try and leave unneeded debate and glib "criticism" out of this.