The REAL SD&D Abortion Thread

[No Sad Endings]

Because the other poll just sucks, frankly. :mellow:

[margot]

Anytime before birth for any reason.

[No Sad Endings]

I don't think that's humane at all. I also don't understand how you can hold the opinion that that should be allowed, because you're all about animal rights and that sort of thing.

[margot]

Human rights.

I don't believe the government should have the right to stop someone from controlling what's in their body. What next? Obviously if someone has an abortion so late in time it's for a serious reason, and I will always consider the mother's life more important than the growth inside of her.

Edited November 26, 2005 by Lindsay

[Gundampilotspaz]

I am a Libertarian.

Any questions?

[No Sad Endings]

Human rights.

I don't believe the government should have the right to stop someone from controlling what's in their body. What next? Obviously if someone has an abortion so late in time it's for a serious reason, and I will always consider the mother's life more important than the growth inside of her.

Don't misunderstand me - if the mother's life is in danger then I think an abortion should be allowed at any time. However, aborting in the third trimester is just unneccesarily cruel to the unborn child if there isn't a medical reason for it. I concider the mother's life more important as well, but if she wants to abort just because she went and puttered around and put off making a decision that long, then for heaven's sake, she can put the child up for adoption.

[Gundampilotspaz]

Even after the third trimester I still don't consider what is in the womb a human being

[No Sad Endings]

Well, I would argue with you, but it would be moot - because the point isn't that it's a human, it's that it's conscious and can feel pain just like a normal newborn can. At any point in the third trimester it is entirely possible to go into early labor, and for the child to survive and develop normally. Therefore, what's in the womb during the third trimester is sentient and pretty much as human as any newborn.

[Samurai Drifter]

The other poll did suck, but my vote is the same here as it was there.

Only medical emergencies.

Edited November 26, 2005 by Samurai Drifter

[darkon]

The other poll did suck, but my vote is the same here as it was there.

Only medical emergencies.

That's quite a broad definition.

Care to shrink it and make it an automatic double standard?

[No Sad Endings]

I concider pregnancy to be a medical emergency in and of itself. Experience pregnancy once, SD, and you probably would too.

[Ceraziefish]

I said for any reason up to the third trimester. I said third trimester because I really don't know the medical tomfoolery. But, as someone said on the other thread, if it's been 20 weeks they know they're pregnant and they should have made a decision by then.

[No Sad Endings]

But, as someone said on the other thread, if it's been 20 weeks they know they're pregnant and they should have made a decision by then.

In the majority of cases, yes.

But the "medical tomfoolery" really boils down to the fact that a woman can go into early labor at any time during the third trimester, and there's a good chance the infant will survive and develop normally. It's pretty much an underdeveloped newborn all during the third trimester.

Edited November 26, 2005 by Liminal Faery

[Ceraziefish]

Exactly. Which is why I said that abortions shouldn't be allowed during the third trimester.

Now that I think of it, I think I was born a coupla weeks early...

[margot]

Even if highly devloped, it's still living in the body of the woman. The government shouldn't have the right to regulate our bodies. And we shouldn't have the right to make judgements that could ruin a woman's life.

[Gundampilotspaz]

Well, I would argue with you, but it would be moot - because the point isn't that it's a human, it's that it's conscious and can feel pain just like a normal newborn can. At any point in the third trimester it is entirely possible to go into early labor, and for the child to survive and develop normally. Therefore, what's in the womb during the third trimester is sentient and pretty much as human as any newborn.

A human being is defined, too me, as a development of the brain in which the being becomes self aware. Without it we are no better then animals.

[Ceraziefish]

I think the government should be able to regulate our bodies to an extent.

Hospitals, anyone?

[No Sad Endings]

A human being is defined, too me, as a development of the brain in which the being becomes self aware. Without it we are no better then animals.

What do you know of how self aware an animal is? Plenty of animals are self aware. o.O Bad comparison. And what do you know of how self aware a fetus during the third trimester is, either?

Lindsay, I agree that the government shouldn't be able to regulate our bodies, however, wtf is a woman doing there in the third trimester of pregnancy without having had an abortion already, if she wanted one?! What difference does it make, at that point, whether she has the child and puts it up for adoption, or aborts it? It's most definately cruel to the child, as it is aware of what is happening and has a fully developed nervous system that can feel the pain of having it's brains sucked out.

[margot]

Lindsay, I agree that the government shouldn't be able to regulate our bodies, however, wtf is a woman doing there in the third trimester of pregnancy without having had an abortion already, if she wanted one?! What difference does it make, at that point, whether she has the child and puts it up for adoption, or aborts it? It's most definately cruel to the child, as it is aware of what is happening and has a fully developed nervous system that can feel the pain of having it's brains sucked out.

Childbirth and adoption are both very difficult processes. "wtf" indeed, "is a woman doing in the third trimester of pregnancy without having an abortion if she wanted one?" Obviously if a woman waited that long it's for a serious problem (medical or non) that we aren't aware of, or she is so irresponsible there's no way she could go through with birth and adoption, and quite possibly the child is damaged from drugs and all the problems that come from a mother not being able to take care of herself. Certainly abortion is very un-fortunate and I get moved to the point of wanting to be "pro-life" when hearing about the details of it, however we must remember that a woman's body is her own and that it comes down to us not having the right to judge.

[No Sad Endings]

No, we don't have the right to judge - but at the same time, a person has to be responsible for their actions. There are certain aspects to a pro-lifer's argument that I actually agree with, such as respecting the fact that that is a living being growing inside of you. If she has made it to the third trimester without aborting it, I'm not judging her for her irresponsibility, but in most cases, I say she should have to go ahead and have the child. Having an abortion at that stage is really more dangerous than childbirth itself, so, why the hell not?

If continuing to carry the child is really dangerous to her health, then yes, she should have the right to abort it, but... *shrug*

[Venom112]

I don't think that's humane at all. I also don't understand how you can hold the opinion that that should be allowed, because you're all about animal rights and that sort of thing.

Perhaps, but consider this, by denying that process you may supposedly be humane to the child, but not at all to the mother. Therefore you enter into an impossible to win scenario, thus under Venom Law (a construct under which reality should work) the winner of the battle and spoils of war would transfer completely to the one not living off the other like a parasite.

However, aborting in the third trimester is just unneccesarily cruel to the unborn child if there isn't a medical reason for it.

Considering you're neither inflicting pain nor suffering upon the fetus (debatable, but then you have to consider levels of comprehension), it's not really cruel.

Well, I would argue with you, but it would be moot - because the point isn't that it's a human, it's that it's conscious and can feel pain just like a normal newborn can. At any point in the third trimester it is entirely possible to go into early labor, and for the child to survive and develop normally. Therefore, what's in the womb during the third trimester is sentient and pretty much as human as any newborn.

But...

Oh... OOOOoh, I see what you're getting at. *wink*

*grabs trash bags*

[Venom112]

I concider pregnancy to be a medical emergency in and of itself. Experience pregnancy once, SD, and you probably would too.

Considering he is male, I would definitely think that was quite odd and in need of attention. I concur, all pregnancies in males are here after medical emergencies.

I think the government should be able to regulate our bodies to an extent.

Hospitals, anyone?

*Sees rise of autism that is linked to shots that used to be mandatory*

Yep, I see what you're saying.

No, we don't have the right to judge - but at the same time, a person has to be responsible for their actions.

And yet when a lass tries to take care of the problem, pro-lifers get up in arms.

[Gundampilotspaz]

Certainly abortion is very un-fortunate and I get moved to the point of wanting to be "pro-life" when hearing about the details of it, however we must remember that a woman's body is her own and that it comes down to us not having the right to judge.

Do not buy into the bullshit. Those stories are rare accurances.

[No Sad Endings]

What stories are rare occurances? The details of abortion are pretty gruesome, GPS. Certainly if it's a third trimester abortion, it's extremely greusome.

[No Sad Endings]

Perhaps, but consider this, by denying that process you may supposedly be humane to the child, but not at all to the mother. Therefore you enter into an impossible to win scenario, thus under Venom Law (a construct under which reality should work) the winner of the battle and spoils of war would transfer completely to the one not living off the other like a parasite.

It's inhumane to expect a woman to go through a whole 9 months of preganancy, yes. Which is why I believe abortion should be allowed up till the third trimester. It's inhumane to expect a woman to go through with carrying the child to term and giving birth if that will cause her especial medical danger that she wouldn't incur from aborting it, too. However, it's not particularly inhumane to expect her to simply go through with something she already completed six months of anyway otherwise, I don't think. Or at least, it is more inhumane to the unborn child to abort it, than it is to the mother for her to carry it to term. An abortion is just as or more dangerous at that point than actually giving birth.

Considering you're neither inflicting pain nor suffering upon the fetus (debatable, but then you have to consider levels of comprehension), it's not really cruel.

In the third trimester? YES YOU ARE. You most certainly are.

But...

Oh... OOOOoh, I see what you're getting at. *wink*

*grabs trash bags*

.....erm. What?

Edited November 26, 2005 by Liminal Faery