Baltar Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/03/08/te...h.ap/index.html Thoughts? Quote Link to comment
Galkar Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I heard about this today in U.S. History, and of course this is bullshit, assuming that he did indeed provide a balanced and impartial presentation as he said. If he simply pointed out the similarities, and then allowed the students to decide for themselves, that's fine, but if he compared them and said that they were the same and Bush is evil, then that would not be cool. Quote Link to comment
darkon Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 It's essentially he did it in a very Republican part of the country and as a result he pissed of students who didn't want to go and look at things through a different perspective. It happens whenever you make someone go against their ideals. Some people are just weak like that. Seems he had a lot of weak students. Quote Link to comment
Satan Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 It's essentially he did it in a very Republican part of the country and as a result he pissed of students who didn't want to go and look at things through a different perspective. It happens whenever you make someone go against their ideals. Some people are just weak like that. Seems he had a lot of weak students. Actually, students walked out because he was suspended. It was the action of one student that got him suspended. I've heard some of the recording. "Now I'm not saying that Bush and Hitler are exactly alike, but there are some eerie similarities. The way they say 'We're the only ones who are right, everyone else is backwards and our job is to conquer the world and make sure that they all live just like we want them to."' " that's the most contreversial part. In his defense, he also said "Now I'm not saying you should agree with me. I'm just trying to get you to think." Nothing I've heard gives a good reason for suspendin or firing him. Quote Link to comment
James_xeno Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 It's essentially he did it in a very Republican part of the country and as a result he pissed of students who didn't want to go and look at things through a different perspective. It happens whenever you make someone go against their ideals. Some people are just weak like that. Seems he had a lot of weak students. Yeah, either that or he's just another delusional extremist dreamer of the left. (I.E. Your average leftist.) :tongue: Quote Link to comment
Satan Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Yeah, either that or he's just another delusional extremist dreamer of the left. (I.E. Your average leftist.) I love i when rightists apply labels based on incomplete info. Kinda makes me think that the snobs have a point and we lefties are better than you Quote Link to comment
James_xeno Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I love i when rightists apply labels based on incomplete info. Kinda makes me think that the snobs have a point and we lefties are better than you OK.... 1. It was in jest. 2. I knew the story before this thread was even posted. 3. I'm not a rightist, I'm also not only anti-left. It may not seem that way, but it's because I'm on a board full of people of the left. (For the most part.) So what's the point in me bitching about or making fun of the right all the time here? 4. I'm equally anti-everybody. :wink: Quote Link to comment
Satan Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 OK.... 1. It was in jest. 2. I knew the story before this thread was even posted. 3. I'm not a rightist, I'm also not only anti-left. It may not seem that way, but it's because I'm on a board full of people of the left. (For the most part.) So what's the point in me bitching about or making fun of the right all the time here? 4. I'm equally anti-everybody. 1) my reply was also in jest, sorry if it didn't come across that well 2) so did I, and probably most people who have posted 3) if you're anti everybody, you're anti leftist. leftists are people too, despite what Coulter and Co say from what I remember of you way back when, you just enjoyed a good argument/flame war (that line has been crossed many times) as for the point of bitching against the right, its every bit as fun as bitching against the left, and i think all people need a slight change of pace sometimes I'm kinda surprised that for such a leftist laden board this isn't being treated as a bigger deal Quote Link to comment
darkon Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Yeah, either that or he's just another delusional extremist dreamer of the left. (I.E. Your average leftist.) That would've had a good comical effect had I not made it obvious I was referring to how both the American left and the American right are both for the most part closed-minded and unaccepting. If he compared Clinton (Though I hardly like to call Clinton a liberal, but for the sake of this argument I will) to say Stalin or something there would be a group of students all pissed off too. Quote Link to comment
Ceraziefish Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Oh, we all know James_Xeno is just a big silly anyway. In any case I find that ignorant people on either side are pretty offensive, and I know it's a problem I personally have to work with (that of ignoring the stupid -- Sorry, differing -- arguments of people who disagree with me). As for this story, all I know about it is what was in that article, but it hardly seems out of line to me. Historical analysis is all about analyzing, which includes comparisons. Some comparisons will be more similar than others, some more reasonable. Quote Link to comment
uniform_motion Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Righties and Lefties. All of this means nothing to me. Screw the two party system. When people stop bitching about sides, and instead work to mend our country, I'll care... Quote Link to comment
darkon Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Righties and Lefties. All of this means nothing to me. Screw the two party system. When people stop bitching about sides, and instead work to mend our country, I'll care... They're both conservative when you really look at it anyway. Quote Link to comment
Satan Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 They're both conservative when you really look at it anyway. I hate the word conservative. Depending on what sense of the word you mean, both parties could be, or neither could be, or either one could be Quote Link to comment
Samurai Drifter Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Well... I agreed with the teacher, but the classroom is not the place to preach your point of view. I think the correct action has been taken. Quote Link to comment
Galkar Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Then who's point of view should he be teaching? The government's? Quote Link to comment
Samurai Drifter Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 No one's. He should be teaching facts. Unbiased facts. Quote Link to comment
Galkar Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Then it could be argued (could because I don't know all of the facts) that he was not presenting an opinion, merely 2 different sets of facts and pointing out the similarities, thus letting students form their own opinions. Quote Link to comment
Ceraziefish Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 No one's. He should be teaching facts. Unbiased facts. So, if the only thing that can be taught is unbiased facts, what can be taught in class? Um, okay, arithmetic, and, uh... Quote Link to comment
Galkar Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 So, if the only thing that can be taught is unbiased facts, what can be taught in class? Um, okay, arithmetic, and, uh... And any philosopher will tell you that even those aren't necessarily absolute facts. Though if not if my 9th grade math teacher has anything to say about it... PS: It's pronounced Porchuh. Remember that. Quote Link to comment
Ceraziefish Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 And any philosopher will tell you that even those aren't necessarily absolute facts. Though if not if my 9th grade math teacher has anything to say about it... PS: It's pronounced Porchuh. Remember that. That was sort of my point. And, now that I think about it, definitely, arithmetic is biased, although perhaps not in the way most people mean. I.E. Base ten math is biased towards tens! When are the twelves going to get their time in the sun?! Quote Link to comment
Satan Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 That was sort of my point. And, now that I think about it, definitely, arithmetic is biased, although perhaps not in the way most people mean. I.E. Base ten math is biased towards tens! When are the twelves going to get their time in the sun?! Math is not biased. Our expression of it may be, but whether you use base ten or base twelve, the quadratic equation still applies. Same goes for about half of science. no matter how ypu express it, the reaction between propane and oxygen still releases energy, and that energey still can burn you Quote Link to comment
Samurai Drifter Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 So, if the only thing that can be taught is unbiased facts, what can be taught in class? Um, okay, arithmetic, and, uh... ... History. Chemistry. Science. When you learn about scientific theories, you're learning what groups of important scientists think, not what the teacher thinks. Social studies is NOT the place for the teacher to get on their fucking political soapbox. You should be learning what world leaders think, not the teacher's opinions on the way they think. Quote Link to comment
Galkar Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Then who's point of view should he be teaching? The government's? No one's. He should be teaching facts. Unbiased facts. You should be learning what world leaders think Also to say that history is made of unbiased facts is simply ignorant. Quote Link to comment
Reinas Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 There are "eerie" similarities between Hitler and many world leaders. Of course people will find it offensive Bush and Hitler are being compared. Of course people will find it pathetic that the Bennish has been suspended. Honestly, what course of action would've made both sides of the field happy? Teaching about what Hitler did is one thing. As Samurai Drifter said, it would be unbiased to relay the known facts of what Hitler and Nazi Germany did. But comparing Bush and Hitler is already going into opinion. Yes there can be similarities but it's not the teacher's place to point it out. If he wanted his students to think about the comparison, he would've taught both leader's policies and left it to the student's interpretation. Quote Link to comment
Satan Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 There are "eerie" similarities between Hitler and many world leaders. Of course people will find it offensive Bush and Hitler are being compared. Of course people will find it pathetic that the Bennish has been suspended. Honestly, what course of action would've made both sides of the field happy? Teaching about what Hitler did is one thing. As Samurai Drifter said, it would be unbiased to relay the known facts of what Hitler and Nazi Germany did. But comparing Bush and Hitler is already going into opinion. Yes there can be similarities but it's not the teacher's place to point it out. If he wanted his students to think about the comparison, he would've taught both leader's policies and left it to the student's interpretation. You obviously haven't been in high school in a while. Unless he made it obvious that what his intent was to compare them, most students wouldn't catch on. I'm guessing that his style involves being fairly outspoken and opinionated, and any deviaton from that would diminish the amount of respect his students have for him, and if they don't respect him, he can't teach. Lets have teachers never give opinions. Ever. No teacher who i've ever had, let alone any teacher who i've ever respected, has kept opinions out of the class. It is impossible to teach the humanities without giving opinions, since nothing in the humanities is proven. keeping opinions out of the classroom will result in the further decay of American education. Right now, tests show that we're bad at memorization (mc tests can't effectively test anything else), which leaves us with thinking, which is the formation and use of opinions. The only thing wrong with using opinions is when your class can't distinguish the opinions from the facts. Since he openly said that this was his opinion, that shouldn't be a problem Quote Link to comment
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